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+--- Thread: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers. (/showthread.php?tid=2667)
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers. - ViperSniper - 08-15-2017 04:29 AM
(08-15-2017 03:36 AM)blackbelt2003 Wrote: The thing is though, Viper, you rank a fighter's greatness based on how great they were at their best times (and how long those best times went on for) not how shitty they were at their worst times.
If a fighter is genuinely great, and that greatness continues for a long period of time (as it did with Floyd), then nothing after the fact can alter that.
If it does, then our entire ATG rankings are based on how 'perfect ' their career was and if they managed to retire at the right time. Someone like Roberto Duran is screwed as he got beat up by William Joppy in his 40's, but Calzaghe and Floyd are top dogs as they 'got out' before they suffered a loss after their primes.
Therefore, for me, it's about what you achieved rather than what you fucked up on.
Black
I feel you rate a fighters greatness throughout their career and not just when they were at their best. Once they're shot or a shell, that's when losses start to become irrelevant.
Someone like Ali or Hopkins managed to archive their greatest work after their best..which is what made them so great (these are exceptions).
That's why fighters like Tyson or Jones may not be considered greater than what they already are had they beaten Holyfield or Tarver. They were still all time greats before those fights and after however..just like Floyd would be with Conor.
Roberto Duran is a good example as he fought well past his prime & fighting weight in his 40's but no one will put too much stock into those late loses. Like Butterbean beating Larry Holmes. Not a great look but Holmes was very old and wayy past it..which is why it doesn't effect his place amongst the rest.
Despite turning 40 recently and being out of the ring 20+ months..Mayweather isn't at that stage where he is faded or shot like some of the fighters mentioned. And they weren't against an opponent making their boxing debut. Mayweather is still considered amongst the best in the world.
Mayweather has already achieved what he has and that can't change but his reputation, legacy and where he is placed amongst past greats can IF he were to lose against an 0-0 fighter.
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers. - blackbelt2003 - 08-15-2017 01:03 PM
So what you're effectively saying is that if Mayweather had slipped earlier on in his career and been shot for the last three years you'd rank him higher?
Just to point out that Floyd losing to McGregor now would indeed impact on his overall career standing.
...I'm merely adding that it doesn't affect how great he was in the first place. Same with Roy, Duran and others losing to everyone in their 40's. If you're comparing careers, then all those losses don't look good. If you're comparing greatness then it has no bearing.
Black
Black
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers. - BGv4.0 - 08-15-2017 05:21 PM
I agree with what you are saying but only to a point.....all of those greats you mention that eventually lost in their late 30's or 40's.....did so to actual pro boxers.
If Floyd loses to a F'N guy with a 0-0-0 record.....man....there is not enough names on the first 49 listings to wipe that shit off....
Honestly....if there is any Cosmic justice in the world and the light side of the force triumphing over evil and all that shit.....I TRULY want Floyd to lose.....if anything just to avoid him taking Rock's record with a BS matchup.....
but we know that's not going to happen....
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers. - blackbelt2003 - 08-15-2017 07:06 PM
There's a rumour floating around that Judah has sparked Mayweather cold in sparring and Floyd kicked everyone out of the gym afterwards.
Black
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers. - the ollie reed fan club - 08-15-2017 07:15 PM
(08-15-2017 05:21 PM)BGv4.0 Wrote: I agree with what you are saying but only to a point.....all of those greats you mention that eventually lost in their late 30's or 40's.....did so to actual pro boxers.
If Floyd loses to a F'N guy with a 0-0-0 record.....man....there is not enough names on the first 49 listings to wipe that shit off....
Honestly....if there is any Cosmic justice in the world and the light side of the force triumphing over evil and all that shit.....I TRULY want Floyd to lose.....if anything just to avoid him taking Rock's record with a BS matchup.....
but we know that's not going to happen....
See and here's the problem, it's only Marciano's 'record' because he chose to retire. What is JCC had decided to retire after say 90 fights. Would it be his record then?
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers. - JONdaCON - 08-15-2017 10:33 PM
Blk that rumor comes up everytime Floyd's in camp..
Judah has dispelled the rumor himself.
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers. - ViperSniper - 08-16-2017 04:49 AM
(08-15-2017 01:03 PM)blackbelt2003 Wrote: So what you're effectively saying is that if Mayweather had slipped earlier on in his career and been shot for the last three years you'd rank him higher?
Just to point out that Floyd losing to McGregor now would indeed impact on his overall career standing.
...I'm merely adding that it doesn't affect how great he was in the first place. Same with Roy, Duran and others losing to everyone in their 40's. If you're comparing careers, then all those losses don't look good. If you're comparing greatness then it has no bearing.
Black
Black
I was more getting at that I don't believe we're dealing with a faded or shot fighter in Floyd here, despite age or inactivity. Unlike Holmes & Duran who were also in their 40's but also washed up faded fighters.
Once a fighter is considered shot is when losses become less relevant in their career. But then that can raise the argument of when a particular fighter is considered done as some fighters decline is more gradual & subtle than others.
But if Floyd had slipped or was considered shot in the last 3 years then I guess his win over Pacquiao for example may have been a better win. Had that been the case leading into the fight then odds and predictions would have been tighter for Pac.
Floyd isn't done as a fighter and hasn't shown any signs of being anywhere near the state of some of the other greats mentioned here who were well faded and past it.
But a loss here wouldn't be against a fellow all time great, up n coming prospect, vetran or someone their is no shame losing to hear.
This wouldn't even be against a boxer! It would be against a UFC fighter making his professional debut who is meant to stand no chance nor be able to land a punch to many. Considering the circumstances I feel this would really hurt & restrict Floyd from ever being regarded greater than other all time greats.
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers. - Imperius3 - 08-16-2017 06:21 PM
We really don't know how faded Floyd might be though. 40 years old, and two years out of the ring is significant. We really don't know if he's cut from the same cloth as Hopkins, although I think he probably is.
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers. - JONdaCON - 08-16-2017 09:27 PM
NSAC has approved 8oz gloves for the fight!!
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers. - lloyd mayflower - 08-16-2017 09:43 PM
Conor to be knocked out quicker than previously anticipated.