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Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - Fitz - 04-12-2012 12:09 AM
Gandalf The Black Wrote:Ok. So I guess there are probably tens of thousands of fighters who are fighting all around the world (bar america), who are NOT world champions, not top 25 p4p. But these guys you probably haven't heard of I guess are all protected because they are fighting in their country for now.Fitz Wrote:I did look it up. Lewis' SECOND fight was in the U.S. Hatton had almost 30 fights before leaving the UK. He almost lost(did in my opinion) to Collazo in his American debut!!! He then manage to get dropped by Floyd and Pac. He rarely travelled outside the UK because he wasn't a very good fighter and was protected. You have an advantage over your opponent when they fight in your territory.Gandalf The Black Wrote:Go have a look at how many times Lewis fought in the UK and the quality of opposition he fought before winning a MAJOR world title.Fitz Wrote:The point I was trying to make is that he fought contenders and sometimes had to leave his country to do so. Enough with the cream.Gandalf The Black Wrote:Exactly. How many phenomenal boxers did Lennox face? He fought the cream of the crop!! Tyson, Evander, Mccall, Briggs, Mercer, Rahman, Tua, Klits!!! He travelled and fought people!!!! This is why he is held in such high regard in the boxing world!!!When you are the cream of the crop, you fight the cream of the crop....period. Lennox Lewis was the CREAM of the crop. Of course comparing him to other fighters that were not great will not stack up. Lewis is an ATG and one of the great heavyweights.
Yes it's nice to pick safe opponents and make as much dough as you can. Eventually you will have to step up and face a challenge. Lewis did that throughout his career. Not in the end.
That's like me saying that Leonard fought the cream of the crop, but Cory Spinks didn't. How is that even fair or makes sense?
Lewis was also an Olympic medallist, that already is a head start and traditionally, olympic medalilsts will move through competition and build a fan base with their back ground history. Which is why you didn't see Lewis slowly try and build a career.
Lewis stepped up in competition once he won a major world title, just like Hatton stepped up in compeititon when he won a world title. The difference between the two is that Lewis won a world title quicker than Hatton did, and also had a lot more longevity as well, which explains why his resume is longer than Hatton's.
Hatton fought Tszyu, who was arguably top 3-5 p4p at the time, he then fought Mayweather who was #1 p4p at the time, and then fought Pacquiao who was p4p #1 at the time.
Some fighters go a full career without ever facing the #1 fighter in the world. Hatton fought separate #1 fighters and the undisputed 140 champion, who was at least top 5 p4p at the time, I may have had him at #3 then.
I don't know how you can think he took an easy path.
http://www.youtube.com/v/xInP9Gi0xAA
CEO was the BIGGEST Hatton hater I have ever met, you should have seen CEO in his prime, and I don't think I even remember him making those suggestions about him, only that he sucked and was a hype job. That says a lot to me, lol.
Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - ViperSniper - 04-12-2012 12:53 AM
Turns out if fights aren't fought on American soil they don't count. Even if you are the best..fighting the best! I now feel sorry for those poor Japanese fighters!!
Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - the ollie reed fan club - 04-12-2012 12:58 AM
Gandalf The Black Wrote:He rarely travelled outside the UK because he wasn't a very good fighter and was protected. You have an advantage over your opponent when they fight in your territory.I guess it also depends on your analogy of 'protected.'
Indeed Hatton had his limitations and was certainly nurtured along in his career but he fought Tsyzu in I think about his 37th pro fight. That actually sounds about right to me, I think too many fighters actually get rushed along in recent times. But Warren had him fighting regularly and slowly built him improving the quality over time.
To be honest I think that is the prefect way to move along a young fighter as opposed to what they are doing with say Alvarez at the moe.
Once Hatton won his title he then went and fought some solid world level fighters in between challenging the 2 top p4p'ers where his limitations were cruelly exposed.
I'm not Hatton fan but of the many things you can accuse him of I don't think you could say he was overly protected.
Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - ROLLDEEP - 04-12-2012 02:28 AM
the ollie reed fan club Wrote:Exactly.Gandalf The Black Wrote:He rarely travelled outside the UK because he wasn't a very good fighter and was protected. You have an advantage over your opponent when they fight in your territory.I guess it also depends on your analogy of 'protected.'
Indeed Hatton had his limitations and was certainly nurtured along in his career but he fought Tsyzu in I think about his 37th pro fight. That actually sounds about right to me, I think too many fighters actually get rushed along in recent times. But Warren had him fighting regularly and slowly built him improving the quality over time.
To be honest I think that is the prefect way to move along a young fighter as opposed to what they are doing with say Alvarez at the moe.
Once Hatton won his title he then went and fought some solid world level fighters in between challenging the 2 top p4p'ers where his limitations were cruelly exposed.
I'm not Hatton fan but of the many things you can accuse him of I don't think you could say he was overly protected.
Like I said earlier....I don't mind of a fighter spends years and years learning his craft, winning fights, maybe having a weak opponent now and again to improve certain areas as long as they end up fighting the best they can.
I don't like seeing fighters going in for world titles later 15 or 20 odd fights. I know they like to do it quickly to make money, but the best fighters are the ones who have done all the back ground work in building up solid foundations to their careers.
Protected means never moving from the building up stage and even when they're ready to move up on class of opposition, they don't.
Hatton wasn't guilty of this by a long shot.
Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - ViperSniper - 04-12-2012 03:00 AM
I think this whole Hatton avoiding competition is way too much! Hatton is a fighter who is lucky enough to be able to face the best fighters of the world today! Within his weight class you really couldn't pick any more highly regarded fighters than Tszyu, Mayweather & Pacquaio. Protected how??? Out of ALL fighters is probably the last fighter that should be accused of avoiding competition!
Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - STEVENSKI - 04-12-2012 03:55 AM
Fitz Wrote:Yep, people could call him a bum, overrated and all that, and that's fair enough, he wasn't a great fighter, but was a good fighter.I would say he is a good fighter who did great things in the ring. How many fighters can say they were UNDISPUTED champion of 140lbs throughout the divisions history?
Though I didn't think the path he took could be questioned.
Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - STEVENSKI - 04-12-2012 04:01 AM
ViperSniper Wrote:I've seen Holmes several times just rip into Ali & Tyson like they broke into his house or something!He had the misfortune to become the man after Ali & before Tyson. A sort of wasteland in time where Ali was held in such high esteem & Tyson was the first fighter to carry that same crossover appeal. Holmes is to me top 3 all time & much like Lewis he never got the respect he clearly deserved during his career. I can't blame him for being bitter about that.
Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - Maxy - 04-12-2012 08:36 AM
Gandalf The Black Wrote:What an absolute load of pathetic drivel you're spouting. Hatton was pretty good, avoided absolutely nobody. I'm not gonna fall into defending him, just gonna bite my lip and figure you're some kinda troll with that shit.Fitz Wrote:I did look it up. Lewis' SECOND fight was in the U.S. Hatton had almost 30 fights before leaving the UK. He almost lost(did in my opinion) to Collazo in his American debut!!! He then manage to get dropped by Floyd and Pac. He rarely travelled outside the UK because he wasn't a very good fighter and was protected. You have an advantage over your opponent when they fight in your territory.Gandalf The Black Wrote:Go have a look at how many times Lewis fought in the UK and the quality of opposition he fought before winning a MAJOR world title.Fitz Wrote:The point I was trying to make is that he fought contenders and sometimes had to leave his country to do so. Enough with the cream.Gandalf The Black Wrote:Exactly. How many phenomenal boxers did Lennox face? He fought the cream of the crop!! Tyson, Evander, Mccall, Briggs, Mercer, Rahman, Tua, Klits!!! He travelled and fought people!!!! This is why he is held in such high regard in the boxing world!!!When you are the cream of the crop, you fight the cream of the crop....period. Lennox Lewis was the CREAM of the crop. Of course comparing him to other fighters that were not great will not stack up. Lewis is an ATG and one of the great heavyweights.
Yes it's nice to pick safe opponents and make as much dough as you can. Eventually you will have to step up and face a challenge. Lewis did that throughout his career. Not in the end.
That's like me saying that Leonard fought the cream of the crop, but Cory Spinks didn't. How is that even fair or makes sense?
Lewis was also an Olympic medallist, that already is a head start and traditionally, olympic medalilsts will move through competition and build a fan base with their back ground history. Which is why you didn't see Lewis slowly try and build a career.
Lewis stepped up in competition once he won a major world title, just like Hatton stepped up in compeititon when he won a world title. The difference between the two is that Lewis won a world title quicker than Hatton did, and also had a lot more longevity as well, which explains why his resume is longer than Hatton's.
Hatton fought Tszyu, who was arguably top 3-5 p4p at the time, he then fought Mayweather who was #1 p4p at the time, and then fought Pacquiao who was p4p #1 at the time.
Some fighters go a full career without ever facing the #1 fighter in the world. Hatton fought separate #1 fighters and the undisputed 140 champion, who was at least top 5 p4p at the time, I may have had him at #3 then.
I don't know how you can think he took an easy path.
Anyway, the bit about about "having an advantage over your opponent when they fight in your territory."
How true is that? How shameless is it that American champions, by and large, have lost the will, lost the courage, to defend their belts abroad. It never used to be like this did it? A world champion would defend his belt in his opponents back yard, travel the world. Andre Ward is a prime example of a champion who thinks he's fighting abroad when he's not in his home state. He'll lose respect for that if things don't change.
How self conceited and obnoxious is it to claim that Americans don't have to travel cos they are the best and American is the Mecca? So you admit American fighters are always at an advantage cos they box in their own territory? Bit of an uneven playing field, don't ya reckon? Especially as they are already so much better?
Lennox Lewis boxed in America in his 2nd fight? So fuckin' what. Chris Eubank had his first 5 bouts in America.
Be nice to see Ward travel to Canada to box Bute if Bute beats Froch. Will that happen? Don't even think about it. Of course though, America is the mecca and Ward has a divine right to stay a homer his entire career....and be given a pass for it too.
Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - BrotherCane - 04-12-2012 08:55 AM
As expected, y'all came up with some really good ones! I have one but I kinda feel funny calling him out cause whether you love him or hate him, he did fight pretty much everyone but there are 3 he should have fought yet their names never came outta his mouth! I am speaking of DLH AKA FISHNETS! He should have rematched Tito, I'll never understand how he let that go! He should have also fought Wright and Forest but never did!
Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - JONdaCON - 04-12-2012 11:54 AM
BrotherCane Wrote:As expected, y'all came up with some really good ones! I have one but I kinda feel funny calling him out cause whether you love him or hate him, he did fight pretty much everyone but there are 3 he should have fought yet their names never came outta his mouth! I am speaking of DLH AKA FISHNETS! He should have rematched Tito, I'll never understand how he let that go! He should have also fought Wright and Forest but never did!And should've won more convincingly a lot of the times. Sooo many of his fights came down to the wire and I can't understand WHY?