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Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - Gandalf The Black - 04-12-2012 12:06 PM
Tell you what Hitman fans. Please give your list of the top ten fighters of all time. Then give me your top 10 list of light welterweight fighters.
Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - blackbelt2003 - 04-12-2012 12:22 PM
Gandalf The Black Wrote:I did look it up. Lewis' SECOND fight was in the U.S. Hatton had almost 30 fights before leaving the UK. He almost lost(did in my opinion) to Collazo in his American debut!!! He then manage to get dropped by Floyd and Pac. He rarely travelled outside the UK because he wasn't a very good fighter and was protected. You have an advantage over your opponent when they fight in your territory.Just thought you might like to know that Hatton's 2nd fight was at Madison Square Garden, too. I'm pretty sure he fought in Atlantic City early on, and Germany, too.
And then I KNOW he fought a 12 rounder in the US, Detroit if I remember rightly, on a Showbox event, coming through a bad cut to take a Latin guy out in the 2nd.
That's just off the top of my head, so I don't know where you get 30 fights from?
Black
Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - lloyd mayflower - 04-12-2012 12:34 PM
blackbelt2003 Wrote:Good work black. Went back and had a look myself. Spot onGandalf The Black Wrote:I did look it up. Lewis' SECOND fight was in the U.S. Hatton had almost 30 fights before leaving the UK. He almost lost(did in my opinion) to Collazo in his American debut!!! He then manage to get dropped by Floyd and Pac. He rarely travelled outside the UK because he wasn't a very good fighter and was protected. You have an advantage over your opponent when they fight in your territory.Just thought you might like to know that Hatton's 2nd fight was at Madison Square Garden, too. I'm pretty sure he fought in Atlantic City early on, and Germany, too.
And then I KNOW he fought a 12 rounder in the US, Detroit if I remember rightly, on a Showbox event, coming through a bad cut to take a Latin guy out in the 2nd.
That's just off the top of my head, so I don't know where you get 30 fights from?
Black
Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - BrotherCane - 04-12-2012 01:18 PM
JONdaCON Wrote:Yea, he was given some gifts vs Ike, Sweetpea and Strum but got dry fucked in MosleyII!BrotherCane Wrote:As expected, y'all came up with some really good ones! I have one but I kinda feel funny calling him out cause whether you love him or hate him, he did fight pretty much everyone but there are 3 he should have fought yet their names never came outta his mouth! I am speaking of DLH AKA FISHNETS! He should have rematched Tito, I'll never understand how he let that go! He should have also fought Wright and Forest but never did!And should've won more convincingly a lot of the times. Sooo many of his fights came down to the wire and I can't understand WHY?
Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - Maxy - 04-12-2012 05:10 PM
Gandalf The Black Wrote:Tell you what Hitman fans. Please give your list of the top ten fighters of all time. Then give me your top 10 list of light welterweight fighters.The relevance being?
Perhaps a fighter is only 'good' if he's top 10 maybe?
Maybe your insinuating, in a round about way, that a discussion ain't worthy until we prove our historical knowledge?
Hmm..not sure what you're driving at.
Tell you what....get back to me when you can dispute the fact (in my opinion) that Americans are ALL homers but they ALL get a pass cos....well, America is the fuckin' Mecca.
Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - Fitz - 04-12-2012 05:36 PM
Gandalf The Black Wrote:Tell you what Hitman fans. Please give your list of the top ten fighters of all time. Then give me your top 10 list of light welterweight fighters.I've got no idea what point you are going to prove here, lol.
Hatton won't be in either. So, what of it?
Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - Fitz - 04-12-2012 06:10 PM
BrotherCane Wrote:As expected, y'all came up with some really good ones! I have one but I kinda feel funny calling him out cause whether you love him or hate him, he did fight pretty much everyone but there are 3 he should have fought yet their names never came outta his mouth! I am speaking of DLH AKA FISHNETS! He should have rematched Tito, I'll never understand how he let that go! He should have also fought Wright and Forest but never did!Trinidad didn't give DLH an immediate rematch, he decided to move up.
http://www.latinosportslegends.com/TrinidadReid.htm
Then off memory, the fight didn't happen because Tito was asking for 60/40 in his favour, lol. Then after some time, was willing to settle for 50/50, lol. He didn't deserve parity with DLH. Trinidad was a big draw, but wasn't big enough to demand higher than DLH.
It also didn't help that Trinidad took his ball and went home for a few years whenever he suffered a loss. Trinidad's legacy suffered because he lost some good years still, by being retired and coming out when ever he wanted some limelight and money.
I think watching a fighter conduct himself at the tail end of their career can tell a lot about fighters, Trinidad didn't give anybody that opportunity because he retired.
DLH fought A LOT of guys, when you're fighting that many guys, it's impossible to fight everyone. There is always guys that you do not face. When fighters fight 2 times a year or so, not everyone can get covered, and you do need a few softer fights inbetween when you're fighting top competition most of the time.
I think DLH can be given a pass for not fighting those guys, when you consider the guys he fought.
Everyone has guys they didn't fight.
Trinidad: Never fought Mosley or Forrest
Leonard: Never fought Pryor
Lewis: Never fought Ruiz
Tyson: Never fought Bowe or Foreman
They are just some brief examples. DLH doesn't have a history of taking easy fights. He was one of the guys that get the most praise in the modern times with the opposition he fought. He can be given a pass when he has had the list of opponents he has had.
I would agree with you had he literally not fought a whole bunch of guys, but he did fight a lot of guys, and there will always be fights for fighters that never happened IMO.
Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - JONdaCON - 04-12-2012 06:59 PM
Maxy Wrote:Lol... Reminds me of Mr. Ivy League Boxer from FH. The old 'gimme your top 10 southpaw flyweights from Cuba'..Gandalf The Black Wrote:Tell you what Hitman fans. Please give your list of the top ten fighters of all time. Then give me your top 10 list of light welterweight fighters.The relevance being?
Perhaps a fighter is only 'good' if he's top 10 maybe?
Maybe your insinuating, in a round about way, that a discussion ain't worthy until we prove our historical knowledge?
Hmm..not sure what you're driving at.
Tell you what....get back to me when you can dispute the fact (in my opinion) that Americans are ALL homers but they ALL get a pass cos....well, America is the fuckin' Mecca.
What was the name of that guy? Lol
Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - the ollie reed fan club - 04-12-2012 07:06 PM
JONdaCON Wrote:What was the name of that guy? LolFucktard.
Calling out fighters you thought got a pass - Snoop - 04-12-2012 10:25 PM
Maxy Wrote:How self conceited and obnoxious is it to claim that Americans don't have to travel cos they are the best and American is the Mecca? So you admit American fighters are always at an advantage cos they box in their own territory? Bit of an uneven playing field, don't ya reckon? Especially as they are already so much better?It's not meant to be conceited and obnoxious at all, it's just how the industry of boxing is structured. You tell me which country generates the most revenue for boxing and that is where the best fights and fighters are going to be because at the end of the day, boxing, like most things in the world, is driven by money. It's not even to say that American boxers are better, just that there's more money running through boxing in America. That's all.
Lennox Lewis boxed in America in his 2nd fight? So fuckin' what. Chris Eubank had his first 5 bouts in America.
Be nice to see Ward travel to Canada to box Bute if Bute beats Froch. Will that happen? Don't even think about it. Of course though, America is the mecca and Ward has a divine right to stay a homer his entire career....and be given a pass for it too.
I also think people are forgetting how little choice a fighter actually has in deciding who and where they want to fight. Most of it is negotiated with lawyers, promoters, managers, sanctioning bodies, cable TV networks, etc., which is why you often hear fighters saying, "I'll fight whoever my promoter wants me to fight." Of course there are exceptions of fighters that do have some autonomy in dictating their opponents and fight locations (Mayweather, DLH, Tyson), but for the most part, fighters don't have much say in where they fight.
Is it fair that Americans don't have to travel to prove themselves? No. But Americans don't have to travel for the same reasons British boxers, or any other boxers from another country has to travel to the US for a fight. In other words, an American boxier unwilling to leave home is criticized for being scared to lose homecourt advantage, NOT for avoiding top competition like a British boxer would be criticized for because most elite fighters (from ANY country) seek out fights in the US because, again, that's where the most money can be made from being a professional boxer.