Mosley or Toney - who had the best career?

[JD]

Mosley sucks

[the ollie reed fan club]

(02-17-2017 02:41 PM)Spyder Wrote:  Good luck Ollie. I have been trying to get any type of evidence for his opinion since the start of the thread, and the best that I have gotten is that the 135lb version of Shane was better than any fighter you can think of...and that Winky Wright could probably lift a small car with his dick.

Honestly Spyder it's like I'm trying to debate a Progressive Liberal. I seem to get everything but an answer to an incredibly simple question ATN's responses have been right from the playbook of the MSM we so often laugh about in the 'Politics' thread.

I asked a very simple question, 'what did he base his assertion that Mosley didn't struggle with the shoulder D on?' Did I get an answer? No instead I just got some personal attacks.

Quote:Some idiots think the way Floyd uses his shoulder is the same as the way Eddie Futch taught. Simple minds.

Quote:Another reason why people who make a comparison based on one fight should never be listened to when trying to make a mythical comparison, it is clear they are suffering from fetal alcoholic spectrum disorder.

At this point I hadn't got personal, merely asked a simple question, so I restated my question and remained civil. And what did I get in response? Certainly not an answer, just more nastiness.

Quote:Please contextualize my comments you simple minded alcoholic.

Good to see ATN keeping it classy. At this point I admit I'm feeling some frustration. All I've asked is for him to tell me how he arrived at the assertion that 'Mosley didn't struggle with the shoulder D.' When he first made that comment I racked my brain and could only think of one fighter that Shane had faced that ever used a shoulder defence and that was Mayweather. And apart from one great round for Shane Floyd schooled him. So I mention this only to get a detailed breakdown of how Toney and Floyd used completely different shoulder defences. Great! I think, so as he made the assertion that Shane did well against shoulder defences he must be basing that claim off some other fighters who used it that Shane did well against. Right? Because you can't make the claim 'Mosley didn't struggle with the shoulder D' unless Shane had actually faced a number of fighters who had used a shoulder defence and done well against them. Because otherwise it would be like saying a fighter doesn't struggle with southpaws but has actually never fought a southpaw. So of course I merely ask ATN to name the fighters with shoulder d's that Shane fought and did well against so I can add some context to his original quote.

And here's where we get some classic Progressive Liberal type debate tactics. First let's start with a little conciliatory talk (but not really)

Quote:Ollie, you know I like what you bring to the forum

Before wham! dismissing me as nothing more than a clown and someone who happens to know a fighter before sending me off to school. Oh how it burns!! LOL

Quote:You have a sharp wit and this provides for some hilarious comments, but if you want to bring more to the boxing part of the forum other than being the joker (and a fly on the wall in Parker's dressing room), you could start by listening to some decent youtube channels. A good steer to start with is this guy: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC44JW1W...yM64T1zQAw

That is some value signalling at it's finest. (Ironically I'd watched the video in question months ago.) I also like the way he appoints himself judge and jury as to what I should bring to 'improve' my performance in the forum.

Before dismissing me completely,

Quote: Come back in a while and chat some time.

Boy oh boy at this point I felt like a voter in the rustbelt state being lectured to by one of those West Coast elites But despite all this the one thing I didn't get was an answer to my very simple question. Because I'm all about the discipline I stay on point and keep asking the question.

'Mosley didn't struggle with the shoulder D.' Please tell me what you base that assertion on? Do I get an answer? You bet I fucken don't, LOl. Instead we get another standard Prog-Lib type tactic and that is misdirection and muddying the waters.

Quote: Yes, that was in relation to a prior comment that he struggled against the shoulder D used by Mayweather.

This is very very disingenuous by ATN because I wasn't the one that started the discussion about how Mosley handled the shoulder roll. He was. He made the comment that Shane didn't struggle with it, but as yet to actually provide ANY supplementary evidence to back up that claim. Just a slew of ad hominem and identity politics-type attacks.

But hey I'm still keeping it civil and sill asking nicely for an answer. And what do I get? Just more classy responses. (Man does this guy seem obsessed by my alcohol consumption or what??)

Quote:Few too many beers tonight again? Don't let the Mrs near them

But hey I don't mind, I'll keep asking in the vain hope that 24 hours of sleep has given him the chance to come up with the list of fighters who used a shoulder against Mosley that Mosley didn't struggle with. Yeah??

Ahmmm nope.

Quote:Shall we go around again or have you sobered up now?

So there you have it gentlemen (and Jon da Con who is certainly no gentleman, LOL) I have tried unsuccessfully a number of times to elicit a detailed response as to why 'Mosley didn't struggle with the shoulder D.' You'd think it would be an easy question to answer. Just name me the fights and the fighters who used it (particularly the one's who used it like Toney) and how Shane did well against them and I'll have the answer to my question.

Will I get one though? I'm losing hope, I admit it, I expect some more vitriolic abuse , some more misdirection and some more value signalling, but maybe, just maybe if I hang in there long enough I'll actually get an answer

[Spyder]

That was about as thoroughly picked apart as James Toney would do to Jittery Shane Mosley!

ATN doesn't want to lay down any facts of his own, because he either:

a) Doesn't have any that support his opinion

or

b) Knows that they are stretches and will easily be taken apart

He would much rather let us carry the conversation, while he just sits in the corner and belligerently yells "NO!!!". It's really easy to have an opinion when you never have to actually defend it. It's a very safe stance that he has taken, and is determined to continue taking.

Have a contrarian viewpoint, and never back it up.

Got it.

[JONdaCON]

Dammit Ollie I've managed to avoid having to comment in this shit storm... dont bring me into this. Lol

[the ollie reed fan club]

(02-18-2017 01:38 AM)JONdaCON Wrote:  Dammit Ollie I've managed to avoid having to comment in this shit storm... dont bring me into this. Lol

You know you want to!

[Dickagon]

Mosley landed one meaningful punch against Floyd.

I think this shoulder D shit with Toney is stupid. Toney had good defense period. Despite how one sided his fight with RJJ was he avoided his punches pretty well. RJJ was more talented than Mosley.

[blackbelt2003]

Hi there...a popcorn thought but I was just wondering if anyone on here had any opinions on how Mosley would do against Toney's shoulder D?



Black

[and the NEW]

(02-17-2017 08:59 PM)the ollie reed fan club Wrote:  a Progressive Liberal.

classic Progressive Liberal

Prog-Lib type

Are we talking politics now? What a waste of time.

Just a tip, because you understand the shoulder roll so well, please teach Joseph Parker how to use it, because mark my words, he will be starched by a right hand.

[Dickagon]

Toney didn't rely on taking punches on his arms, that's just one of the easiest ways to block shots in the pocket. He could do it all. He could pick shots off, roll with shots to take less damage from them, lean away and use distance, slip punches and etc. I think he's one of the best defensive fighters of modern times considering he did it all with skill/work and not physical talent.

Mosley would struggle with landing meaningful punches against Toney and would really have to hope that he wouldn't get too comfortable in there. Toney could let him get off shots and build his confidence then crush him with a hook he didn't see coming. Mosley was just too reliant on his offense. When he felt like it's effective his confidence was high, when he didn't he'd look for shots and load up on punches.

[the ollie reed fan club]

(02-18-2017 07:29 AM)and the NEW Wrote:  Are we talking politics now? What a waste of time.

Just a tip, because you understand the shoulder roll so well, please teach Joseph Parker how to use it, because mark my words, he will be starched by a right hand.

What did I tell you Spyder? All class this one.