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***Warlord*** · 08-09-2015, 08:53 PM

Israel should be building settlements in Jerusalem. It's theirs. If Muslims don't like it, they can fuck right off.

Palestinians should thank God Israel is more civilized than they are. The last time the leash came off, Israel whipped the dog shit out Egypt, Syria, and Jordan in 6 fucking days, inflicting 20 times the number of casualties they suffered themselves.

Fuck militant Islam. As I said, they've earned nothing and deserve nothing. Israel has proven themselves on the world stage as dependable, rational, reasonable allies. Palestine has not.

As I said, if they want a Palestinian state they can carve up Arabic land to do it. They don't have a claim on Israeli land, and Israel has every right to defend themselve from historically violent invaders.

***JONdaCON*** · 08-09-2015, 09:25 PM

"Fuck militant Islam. As I said, they've earned nothing and deserve nothing. Israel has proven themselves on the world stage as dependable, rational, reasonable allies. Palestine has not."....

Ding ding ding. Winner winner chiccen dinner.

My sentiments exactly... And a couple of my best Muslim friends are Palestinian.

On another note.. Mexico is becoming very middle Eastern in the criminal sense. Shyt is like the Wild West out there.

***salvador*** · 08-09-2015, 09:32 PM

Is the argument that the land is Israel's because of the old testament or because Israel has owned the land since the USA and England gave it to them out of thin air in 1947? Because I think that other than one brief period, there hadn't been a Jewish state in the middle east since 44BC.

And if the land belongs to Israel because historically speaking (according to the bible) they were there first when Moses parted the Red Sea, should we have relations with Cuba even though the rich Cubans who fled Cuba in the revolution haven't gotten their lands back from Castro. Because that was less than 40 years ago - a lot different than 2000 years ago. For that matter, should we give Texas back to the Comanches?

***Warlord*** · 08-09-2015, 10:42 PM

Quote:Is the argument that the land is Israel's because of the old testament or because Israel has owned the land since the USA and England gave it to them?

Israel existed as en ethnicity and a nation-state long before Islam or the idea of a Muslim nation-state.

I don't know how many more ways to phrase this, but Israel has every right to the land they're on. They have a cultural, religious, historical, and legal right to it. Muslims have none of these.

Your assertion that the U.S. and her allies "gave" this land to Israel is an exercise in intellectual dishonesty. They gave this land back to Israel.

Tell me, by what rights do Muslims "deserve" to be given even a scrap of Israeli land? By what rights should it even be considered?

***lloyd mayflower*** · (This post was last modified: 08-09-2015 10:48 PM by lloyd mayflower.)

Surely the arguement isnt whether Muslims deserve or dont deserve the land, but whether Palestinians deserve it?

And lets not forget that in building its settlements and fences, Israel is consitently breaking international law.

You can argue who has the right to what land historically till you are blue in the face, but historically everyone only ever got anything by using the big stick. What you cant argue is that laws laid down by the international community are being broken. If you are ok with that then id have to question your emotional attachment to the subject clouding your judgement

***salvador*** · 08-09-2015, 10:51 PM

The indians roamed the plains of the USA long before the white man came. If Russia could flip a switch and turn off our military and control us overnight, wouldn't the same logic make it reasonable for Russia to give America back to the indians?

***the ollie reed fan club*** · 08-10-2015, 12:05 AM

(08-09-2015 10:51 PM)salvador Wrote: The indians roamed the plains of the USA long before the white man came. If Russia could flip a switch and turn off our military and control us overnight, wouldn't the same logic make it reasonable for Russia to give America back to the indians?

I've enjoyed watching this debate on the sidelines. It's been pretty good stuff from both sides and respectful too.

Since Warlord opened the can of worms that is original ownership I think you make a valid point. Should America now give back great swathes of lands to the Indians who were undeniably the owners before white settlers came. Do I have to vacate NZ as we gift it back to the Maoris as the original custodians?

Or is it as simple as has been mentioned before that it is the winners that write history?

***Spyder*** · 08-10-2015, 03:01 AM

Life's not always fair. The strong survive, and the weak lose. I'm all for America staying the fuck out of Israeli business. The Jews have to live with the neighbors that they have, and the decisions that they make. Let them do whatever the fuck they want, and live with the consequences.

Everyone can't be a winner.

***Spyder*** · 08-10-2015, 10:22 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP6S3KE2DaI

***salvador*** · 08-10-2015, 10:40 AM

Spyder, I have no idea how many of those kinds of youtube videos are real, but they scare me nonetheless.

Fran Lebowitz once said that she spent her 20s depressed and reclusive and the only time she ever left her NYC apartment was to buy food and cigarettes at the store around the corner. And every time she shopped there she would listen to the conversations of the people around her and realize that those people voted, which just made her that much more depressed.