Politics Unfiltered

[Warlord]

Don't go calling them cunts, now. We got some turds that'll get butthurt and start whining about the oppression of poor ol' Muslims again.

[lloyd mayflower]

Thats whats wrong with politics these days... everyone is entrenched that they are either left or right. Certainly in the context of this board im a left winger, but il call a cunt a cunt every day of the week.

[blackbelt2003]

(10-12-2015 02:39 PM)lloyd mayflower Wrote:  Thats whats wrong with politics these days... everyone is entrenched that they are either left or right. Certainly in the context of this board im a left whinger, but il call a cunt a cunt every day of the week.

Fixed it for you.



Black

---

OK, nice discussion about the gun thing on FB today, thought it was interesting.

Video shows a trained 13yr old girl using multiple firearms to shoot targets. The comment over the vid by someone called Brookyln Jongkind says:

"Talented little girl, but I will never for the life of me understand why a kid is learning how to shoot weapons like this.
I guess it's because I was raised in Canada, where we played road hockey, went bmx'ing, and went to karate class.
Doesn't surprise me that the countries that have kids using weapons, also have the most gun murders."


Here is the discussion after it:

Lance Robert Hough: Careful with assumptive correlations. This is sport training with safety rules and discipline training and responsibility development that actually go way beyond what we teach in karate. In my career I have met many people who believe that martial arts training is just glorified violence. Martial arts fortunately has gotten much better press over the years, and its presence hasn't been arbitrarily related to violent physical actions, punching, kicking, fighting choking the same way guns have. If indeed your assertion about gun murders is true(I would dispute it based on empirically gathered studies I am familiar with), then this type of training, similar to martial arts, would create the antithesis of violence, just like martial arts. Also keep in mind that the prevalence of teaching martial arts to kids is historically extremely recent. In the West, for instance, the spread of martial arts in the 60s and 70s was through exposure to mostly military men who were stationed in Asiatic countries. It was considered a serious grown up thing to do. When I was a kid, martial arts schools didn't encourage child participation, although the idea grew in the 70s because of the benefits of training for self-control, personal development, and self-defense, as well as sport. Not to mention money! Training with firearms has the same benefits. This girl worked her butt off getting this good, and likely loves what she is doing, and finally, she knows how to defend herself. Good for her!
Like · Reply · 12 · 7 hrs
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Brooklyn Jongkind: I agree, she is very talented and good for her to put in the time and work to get so good. It really is impressive and I'm not taking anything away from her at all. I simply don't understand why any parent would ever let their child do this. I wasn't even allowed to have toy guns in the house growing up.
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Brooklyn Jongkind But numbers don't lie.
Brooklyn Jongkind's photo shows statistics that the US leads the world in gun related deaths
Like · Reply · 1 · 7 hrs


Brendan Jongkind: Just to play devils advocate... consider that all of the above countries have better educated citizens. Not saying Americans are dumb but statistically the American education system is ranking around 30th in the world if I'm not mistaken. For a first world country thats almost dead last
Like · Reply · 2 · 7 hrs · Edited

Lance Robert Hough: I understand where you are coming from. So basically, your bias is that you can't understand it and you are then confirming your bias. There is something to learn here that is valuable to critical thinking. You are talking to a former research statistician, and I can tell you that numbers are constantly used to tell lies, and that correlational studies are garbage and that the majority of scientists, especially social scientists are guilty of attribution bias, the most common one being confirmation bias. There are sooo many other factors and stats to look at where guns and violent cultures are concerned... I bet we could make a similar correlation for the US with physical violence and commercial martial arts schools, We in the US have some serious cultural problems to overcome(years ago I actually thought about moving to Canada because there are things culturally I like better about Canada, GO LEAFS!!!) and consistently, when we outlaw stuff things get worse. We outlawed alcohol, and ended up with the rise of organized crime in the 1920's that branched out into organized crime in our trade unions, gambling, as well as many other drugs, problems that persist today even into inner city culture and gangs. The cities in this country where guns are practically outlawed have the absolutely highest incidence of gun crime and per capita murders. Interesting correlation. Banning things in our US culture always seems to lead to higher level of abuse and crime. We aren't nice little Denmark, or cool Canada. For us, gun control would be a bandaid under which the infection would grow.
Like · Reply · 5 · 7 hrs

Brendan Jongkind: I agree with the above poster. It's not that the guns are there. It's who is in control of the guns. I'm sure most of those gun deaths are by guns that aren't registered. So putting in anti gun laws won't solve the problem
Like · Reply · 3 · 7 hrs
Lance Robert Hough
Lance Robert Hough Good observation about the education system here. The financial and political powers that be in our country benefit from keeping an under-educated poor class growing and they don't address that much... they address the tragedies of school shootings here and there, but not that daily crime related murders among the lower socio-economic classes....they don't really care.
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Brendan Jongkind: And to add on to my education post. When you aren't educated you normally can't get a good job. When you can't get a job what can you do to make money that you don't need a lot of skills for? Crime. It is in our nature to do what we have to to survive.
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Lance Robert Hough: Exactly, it has become a way of life, starting from survival and now a couple of generations later, a cultural identity.
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Brendan Jongkind: I don't exactly remember what documentary I heard this from and I could be way wrong but it said that Canada has more guns per person the the US. Sure they could be all hunting rifles but a gun is a gun.
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Brooklyn Jongkind: I understand all of this, and my point about countries that have more murders...was just a comment. The post was actually directed at not understanding why any parent would teach their children how to operate weapons like this. That's all.
Like · Reply · 1 · 7 hrs

Lance Robert Hough: Switzerland requires all citizens to serve in the military and they have to take their ordinance home and are required to maintain their ordinance. Their incidence of murder with firearms is low(supposedly it has grown correlated with immigration) in spite of this extreme prevalence of not only firearms, but military type firearms.
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Brendan Jongkind: You bring up a point in which I agree with and could help our new failing lazy and entitled generation. Mandatory 2 year military training. Don't send them overseas but teach them hardwork. Discipline. Respect. All things this new generation doesn't have.
Like · Reply · 2 · 7 hrs

Brooklyn Jongkind: I say allow parents to hit discipline their kids again. Bring back the wooden spoon, without the fear of child services showing up, and kids will sign a different tune.

I also put a lot of blame on the schools for not standing up for kids being bullied.
Like · Reply · 3 · 7 hrs

Lance Robert Hough: My parents would not allow me to participate in martial arts when I was a kid... they felt similar to you ... they couldn't understand why anyone would want to do martial arts, and they looked at from a perspective similar to you. So I simply provided a comparison (embedded in an argument regarding the correlation you presented) so maybe you could see the similarity and thus the reason why. Familiarity and acceptance. I teach my son both martial arts and shooting skills, He has a blast, works very hard and develops similar personal qualities in both realms, as I pointed out previously. I hope he never has to use either defensively, and that is not our primary focus, but the capacity is there.
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Brendan Jongkind: The ol wooden spoon. Works like a charm. It's not abuse but it sure teaches respect
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Lance Robert Hough: my mom had a series of wooden spoons. They varied in length and mass. Depending on the crime, the punishment was dealt. When you saw the biggest spoon emerge, you had no choice but to run.
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Lance Robert Hough: As for the bullying thing... yes... there is anti bullying training at my son's school but it is naive... very very naive....
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Brooklyn Jongkind: Our mom had a batman utility belt of wooden spoons, so that when one broke she had quick access to another one to finish the spanking lol
Like · Reply · 1 · 6 hrs

Brooklyn Jongkind: Your sons school is one of the lucky ones. I speak with people every day that tell me their child's school does nothing, sides with the bully, disciplines the one being bullied that stands up for themselves, doesn't allow any bully teaching to be done in school, etc. It's sad.
Like · Reply · 1 · 6 hrs

Brooklyn Jongkind: As for the comparison between karate and guns,I see your point. However I do not see how you can connect open hand training to fire arm training. Although both can be used in combat, one kills and one doesn't. Also, one is using your hands and feet, something God gave you, while the other uses a gun and bullets, that man gave you. Very different in my mind.

Again, I think it just chalks it up to the difference in upbringing between Canada & Europe and America. Maybe my view would be different if I spent more of my childhood and teen years in the states.

I, for one, would never allow my child to shoot a gun; but that's because my parents would never let me.
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Lance Robert Hough: Unfortunately my son has been bullied but the kids who bully are sometimes the popular kids whose parents volunteer for a lot of stuff so I think based on that alone my son has been punished after being bullied
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Lance Robert Hough: The shooting sports are alive and well in all the countries you listed. So it's not really about being a teenager in the US. I have Canadian friends who grew up with hunting firearms in shooting sports. And as for empty hands not being able to kill people I am Not sure what you have studied but I can assure you that people trained an untrained kill each other with their bare hands every day. It may be true that most commercial martial arts schools do not mention much less focus on lethal techniques but they indeed exist. And I am NOT talking about five finger ninja death touch.
Like · Reply · 1 · 6 hrs




Black

[salvador]

(10-12-2015 02:39 PM)lloyd mayflower Wrote:  Thats whats wrong with politics these days... everyone is entrenched that they are either left or right. Certainly in the context of this board im a left winger, but il call a cunt a cunt every day of the week.

I agree. Most people are fiscally conservative (at least those who aren't receiving checks or benefits from the gov't) and socially liberal and so they don't fit into cookie cutter definitions of either left or right. And I think that all westerners hate anyone who wants to take any of our freedoms away.

[salvador]

Two more fun factoids of the day:

1.) America has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the prison population

2.) America has 5% of the world's population and 80% of the world's lawyers

Which is worse?

[Warlord]

The policies that created those numbers.

[salvador]

Watching this debate is the first time I've really thought that the republicans might actually win.

[Warlord]

You didn't know it before? This debate is a fucking sham. A fucking disgrace, and not a straight answer in sight. Blame Republicans, Blame Bush, free entitlements for minorites and illegal immigrants across the board!

It's like watching bank robbers who forgot to wear masks.

[Spyder]

The Dems have the absolute WORST game plan going into this election that I have ever seen.

Pretend that everybody likes you, and hates the other party. Don't be mean to each other, and get out of the way so Hillary can get the nomination.

That is it. That is their strategy.

They are going to get blasted.

[salvador]

The strategy also includes Hillary getting out the women vote by spending hundreds of millions of dollars on pro-choice ads right before the election.

I believe that that is the dems' ace up their sleeve.

It's completely incredible to think that this country has $100TR-$200TR of debt obligations (depending on your actuarial assumptions for the entitlements) against $3TR of annual federal tax revenues and this election looks like it's going to be fought on social issues - AND BOTH SIDES SEEM TO WANT THAT. Totally fucking incredible.

And by the way, FUCK TRUMP! I've been reading that he is fundamentally opposed to entitlement reform because as an issue it's a "loser". The piece of shit!