Threaded Mode | Linear Mode

***Warlord*** · 10-08-2019, 03:18 PM

(10-08-2019 03:13 PM)Nay_Sayer Wrote: https://books.google.com/books?id=hs0p20...&q&f=false

Seems to me that the so-called "Afrocentrists" aren't the only scholars who have distorted history. The mainstream historians and academia, who created your suspicious "Aryan Model" of Ancient Greece, are just as guilty of distorting the facts as you claim the so-called "Afrocentrists" are.

I'm not reading your links anymore. Every out of context quote or link of yours I debunk, you just move straight to your next bullshit claim. You don't even defend your assertions, you just move to your next attack.

Links and out-of-context quotes are not substitutes for arguments.

Make your argument, in your own words, and use your link as the source at the end. In your own words, tell me what your argument is.

***Nay_Sayer*** · (This post was last modified: 10-08-2019 03:38 PM by Nay_Sayer.)

(10-08-2019 03:04 PM)Warlord Wrote: No, dipshit. You are. Your sources are Afrocentrists writing college papers. My assertions are based on physical evidence which every major historian and academic institution on Earth agree with, even your garbage-tier sources.

https://www.academia.edu/22419467/Athenian_Democracy_speaking_through_its_Inscriptions_A_travelling_exhibition_bas%E2%80%8Bed_on_ancient_inscriptions

Isn't this one of YOUR sources, Genius?

I posted a paper from the *same* source which you proceeded to dismiss as "Afrocentric". Lets look at it again, shall we?

https://www.academia.edu/29954941/AFRICA_AND_THE_ORIGIN_OF_DEMOCRACY_A_REAPPRAISAL_OF_THE_IGBO_STATELESS_SOCIETY

It's very typical of you goose-stepping, inbred, Eurocentric retards to dismiss YOUR own sources of information when said source does not agree with your preconceived notions [read properly: prejudices].

However, it really doesn't matter seeing as - dismissing a source as being "Afrocentric" doesn't mean that said source hasn't made a valid point, Genius. And you have not successfully disputed a single point made by any of my so-called "Afrocentric" sources. Like I said, Western "Civilization" is an African innovation - "democracy" included...

(10-08-2019 03:18 PM)Warlord Wrote: I'm not reading your links anymore. Every out of context quote or link of yours I debunk, you just move straight to your next bullshit claim. You don't even defend your assertions, you just move to your next attack.

Of course you're not reading my links. That 50 word vocabulary makes it hard to keep up. Shall I not use words of more than four letters from now on so you can more easily understand the concept relayed? Would that help, Einstein?

(10-08-2019 03:04 PM)Warlord Wrote: Your argument cannot withstand even the slightest scrutiny. For example, you claim Greeks stole their religion from the Egyptians 1,000 years after the Greek religion was first written about.

When did I claim the Greeks "stole" religion from Egypt? And exactly WHO first wrote about Greek religion? And once you answer that second question, please explain it within the following context:

(10-04-2019 04:31 PM)Warlord Wrote: There is a reason none of the ancient historical writings that have survived the ravages of time (such as the works of Plato) are taken at face value. It is because they are pseudo-historical works. Plutarch's writings, like Plato's writings before him, are filled with fantasy, anachronisms, and outright fabrications. I don't say this as a criticism of Plutarch or Plato. It was common among all ancient "historians." Taking these works at face value is tantamount to reading Shakespeare's writings as history (which many mistakenly have and do), rather than drama.

(10-08-2019 03:04 PM)Warlord Wrote: You also claim Greeks stole democracy from the Ancient Egyptians, when the Ancients Egyptians never had democracy to begin with.

When did I claim the Greeks stole democracy from Egypt? When did I claim the Ancient Egyptians ever practiced democracy?

***Warlord*** · 10-08-2019, 03:38 PM

(10-08-2019 03:27 PM)Nay_Sayer Wrote: https://www.academia.edu/22419467/Athenian_Democracy_speaking_through_its_Inscriptions_A_travelling_exhibition_bas%E2%80%8Bed_on_ancient_inscriptions

Isn't this one of YOUR sources, Genius?

I posted a paper from the *same* source which you proceeded to dismiss as "Afrocentric". Lets look at it again, shall we?

https://www.academia.edu/29954941/AFRICA_AND_THE_ORIGIN_OF_DEMOCRACY_A_REAPPRAISAL_OF_THE_IGBO_STATELESS_SOCIETY

It's very typical of you goose-stepping, inbred, Eurocentric retards to dismiss YOUR own sources of information when said source does not agree with your preconceived notions [read properly: prejudices].

Dipshit, I intentionally used the same websites that you did so you couldn't argue about the translations on the Greek stele I posted pictures of. Because even you aren't dumb enough to discredit websites you already linked to.

I didn't choose those sources because they are the best, or because they were the only ones available. I chose them because those were the exact same two websites you cited earlier.

As for those websites, it was only academia.edu that I criticized. Even then, it wasn't the website itself I criticized, as the website itself isn't a source. It's place for college kids to post papers they've written. It isn't a source for anything, except college papers. The authors of the papers would be considered the source, not the site.

It was your author I took issue with, not the website that hosted it. If you want to criticize the author I linked to, be my guest. I'll find another who translated the stones the same way. And another. And another. And another. And another. And then you can whine how every translator on Earth who translates the stones the same way is doing so because they're evil racists who are trying to keep the black man down by hiding his history from him.

Quote:However, it really doesn't matter seeing as - dismissing a source as being "Afrocentric" doesn't mean that said source hasn't made a valid point, Genius. And you have not successfully disputed a single point made by any of my so-called "Afrocentric" sources. Like I said, Western "Civilization" is an African innovation - "democracy" included...

One period to end a sentence, not two.

Do me a favor, tell me which point they made (not you, because you have no original thoughts) that you think I haven't debunked. Write it in your own words. And I'll debunk it for you. Again.

(10-08-2019 03:27 PM)Nay_Sayer Wrote: When did I claim the Ancient Egyptians ever practiced democracy?

(10-08-2019 03:27 PM)Nay_Sayer Wrote: Like I said, Western "Civilization" is an African innovation - "democracy" included...

What exactly do you think the Greeks learned from the Egyptians, if not democracy? What exactly do you think the "Nile Valley" taught the Greeks?

Your own words, not links.

***Nay_Sayer*** · (This post was last modified: 10-08-2019 04:58 PM by Nay_Sayer.)

(10-08-2019 03:38 PM)Warlord Wrote: Your own words, not links.

Ok, here are some of YOUR own words:

(10-04-2019 04:31 PM)Warlord Wrote: There is a reason none of the ancient historical writings that have survived the ravages of time (such as the works of Plato) are taken at face value. It is because they are pseudo-historical works. Plutarch's writings, like Plato's writings before him, are filled with fantasy, anachronisms, and outright fabrications. I don't say this as a criticism of Plutarch or Plato. It was common among all ancient "historians." Taking these works at face value is tantamount to reading Shakespeare's writings as history (which many mistakenly have and do), rather than drama.

(08-11-2014 03:44 PM)Warlord Wrote: The internal evidence for an early dating for Mark, Matthew, and Luke is overwhelming. In fact, I will give you a verse that clearly demonstrates two points. (1.) That these gospels were written by (or based upon) eye-witness accounts, and (2.) Every attempt was made to record Jesus's sayings as accurately as possible, with no desire to harmonize it or to make it appear to be anything more than it was.

Please, tell us why the Gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke do not fit your "pseudo-historical works" model.

Can't wait to hear your reply..

(10-08-2019 03:38 PM)Warlord Wrote: Do me a favor, tell me which point they made (not you, because you have no original thoughts) that you think I haven't debunked. Write it in your own words. And I'll debunk it for you. Again.

Sure thing.

Lets start with Herodotus - who tells us explicitly that the names of the Gods came to Greece from Egypt. Why should I not believe him? Because YOU say so? LOL...

(10-08-2019 03:38 PM)Warlord Wrote: It was your author I took issue with, not the website that hosted it. If you want to criticize the author I linked to, be my guest. I'll find another who translated the stones the same way. And another. And another. And another. And another. And then you can whine how every translator on Earth who translates the stones the same way is doing so because they're evil racists who are trying to keep the black man down by hiding his history from him.

I can do the same with the subject material of the author you took issue with. I'll find another who says democracy is an African concept. And another. And another. And another. And another. And then you can whine how every author who claims that democracy existed on the African continent before the Greeks practiced it is an "Afrocentrists".

(10-08-2019 03:38 PM)Warlord Wrote: As for those websites, it was only academia.edu that I criticized. Even then, it wasn't the website itself I criticized, as the website itself isn't a source. It's place for college kids to post papers they've written. It isn't a source for anything, except college papers. The authors of the papers would be considered the source, not the site.

Sorry but it doesn't work that way, Genius. If you're going to post articles from a certain website then you have own whatever else comes with it, Einstein.

(10-08-2019 03:38 PM)Warlord Wrote: Dipshit, I intentionally used the same websites that you did so you couldn't argue about the translations on the Greek stele I posted pictures of. Because even you aren't dumb enough to discredit websites you already linked to.

But apparently you ARE.

LMAO

(10-08-2019 03:38 PM)Warlord Wrote: What exactly do you think the Greeks learned from the Egyptians, if not democracy? What exactly do you think the "Nile Valley" taught the Greeks?

It's already been demonstrated that ALL of the major Greek scholars came to Africa in order to LEARN. If the Greeks were so superior in their learning, religion and culture - why then come to Africa and emulate Africans? Can you figure that one out, Einstein?

***Warlord*** · 10-08-2019, 05:16 PM

(10-08-2019 03:27 PM)Nay_Sayer Wrote: Lets start with Herodotus - who tells us explicitly that the names of the Gods came to Greece from Egypt. Why should I not believe him? Because YOU say so? LOL...

I've explained this to you already. I'll post the answer again.

Quote:The worship of Zeus predated every single name from Plutarch's list -- Solon (c. 630 BC - c. 560 BC), Thales (c. 624 BC - 546 BC), Pythagoras (c. 570 BC - c. 495 BC), Plato (c. 428 BC - c. 347 BC), Eudoxus (c. 390 BC - c. 337 BC).

Archaeological evidence can currently trace the worship of Zeus as far back as 3,400 years ago (almost 1400 BC). That's about a thousand years earlier than almost all the historical figures mentioned by Plutarch.

The same is true for nearly all of the Greek gods. All of them were well-established myths before any of the great Greek philosophers were born, which is why they were being written about in long-form by Homer in the Illiad and the Odyssey in 1260 BC. How could any of the great philosophers of Greece have gone and stolen their religion or philosophy from the Egyptians if it was already centuries old before they were born?

If the Greeks took the names of Greek gods from the Egyptians, it had to happen sometime before 1400 B.C.

What is the name of the Greek who traveled to Egypt and took these names? And which names specifically do you think came from Egypt? And what physical or etymological evidence do you have of this?

Again, no quotes or links. I don't need them. Make your own argument. You can include a link at the end of your argument if you want.

Besides your claim that the Greeks stole the names of their gods from Egypt, what other influence do you think the Egyptians had on the Greeks? No generalizations. Be specific.

***Nay_Sayer*** · 10-08-2019, 05:52 PM

(10-08-2019 05:16 PM)Warlord Wrote: How could any of the great philosophers of Greece have gone and stolen their religion or philosophy from the Egyptians if it was already centuries old before they were born?

Egypt predates Greece by over a thousand years, Einstein. So, again, why should I not believe Herodotus?

(10-08-2019 05:16 PM)Warlord Wrote: If the Greeks took the names of Greek gods from the Egyptians, it had to happen sometime before 1400 B.C.

Egypt predates Greece by over a thousand years, Einstein. So, again, why should I not believe Herodotus?

(10-08-2019 05:16 PM)Warlord Wrote: What is the name of the Greek who traveled to Egypt and took these names?

Greeks didn't come to Egypt to learn the names of the Egyptian gods. The Egyptians came to Greece, set up shop, and established their religion in Greece - which then the Greeks adopted...

(10-08-2019 05:16 PM)Warlord Wrote: And which names specifically do you think came from Egypt? And what physical or etymological evidence do you have of this?

Zeus, Heracles, Apollo - damn near all of them. Herodotus is my evidence - besides the FACT that the Greeks themselves identified their gods with those of Egypt.

(10-08-2019 05:16 PM)Warlord Wrote: Besides your claim that the Greeks stole the names of their gods from Egypt,

When did I make this claim?

(10-08-2019 05:16 PM)Warlord Wrote: what other influence do you think the Egyptians had on the Greeks? No generalizations. Be specific.

Medicine, Science, Mathematics, Philosophy.

***the ollie reed fan club*** · 10-08-2019, 08:40 PM

Warlord intentionally used Nay_sayer's own source regarding the translations on the Greek stele which he posted pictures of. I'm yet to actually see Nay_sayer directly respond to this. Not once. Just diversion, diversion, diversion and a pivot on to something else. it would be nice to see him address this without pivots.

I read the link that Nay_sayer posted and the very BEST the link could ascertain was that Africa may have it's own independent form of democracy, and even that was fill of lots of 'in my opinion' 'and therefore it is safe to assume.' That's why I was surprised that he posted that link and had to ask if he actually read it. It kinda weakened his case rather than strengthened it.

So, yeah a response to the stele post and of course Jack Johnon's Top 5 wins would be nice but I don't expect them anytime soon.

***Nay_Sayer*** · 10-08-2019, 09:53 PM

(10-08-2019 08:40 PM)the ollie reed fan club Wrote: Warlord intentionally used Nay_sayer's own source regarding the translations on the Greek stele which he posted pictures of. I'm yet to actually see Nay_sayer directly respond to this. Not once.

There was nothing to respond to. The question was never if the Ancient Greeks had democracy. The question was, who had it first..

(10-08-2019 08:40 PM)the ollie reed fan club Wrote: I read the link that Nay_sayer posted and the very BEST the link could ascertain was that Africa may have it's own independent form of democracy, and even that was fill of lots of 'in my opinion' 'and therefore it is safe to assume.'

The source I provided establishes without question where the concept of democracy comes from..

***the ollie reed fan club*** · 10-08-2019, 11:26 PM

(10-08-2019 09:53 PM)Nay_Sayer Wrote: There was nothing to respond to. The question was never if the Ancient Greeks had democracy. The question was, who had it first..

The source I provided establishes without question where the concept of democracy comes from..

No it doesn't. All it hypothesizes is that Africa may have had a democracy of its own. That's the best it could ascertain. AND one side (not yours) has posted an avalanche of supporting evidence and the best you've been able to do is repeat one dumb phrase again and again with your whole 'lets see Einstein' type shtick. I did a ton of debate in college and frankly they'd be waving this off right now as you've been absolutely smoked. I'd LOVE to see you post some decent substantive evidence rather than thinking snarky replies and a one sentence mantra is going to carry the day.

***Warlord*** · 10-08-2019, 11:34 PM

(10-08-2019 05:52 PM)Nay_Sayer Wrote: Egypt predates Greece by over a thousand years, Einstein. So, again, why should I not believe Herodotus?

Because there is no evidence that it is true. The Greek gods had been around for almost 1,000 years before Herodotus was born. If the names of the Greek gods had an Egyptian origin, there would be linguistic evidence of this.

Though the Greeks were familiar with Egyptian culture, especially after the conquests of Alexander the Great, there is absolutely no evidence that this influenced the naming of Greek gods, as those gods already had names for a thousand years.

Linguistically, loanwords are very easy to identify. This is true across all languages. In English you have China (from 'Qin'), and Japan (from 'Nippon') as two examples. In Japanese you have the words Kōhī (from 'coffee') and Bīru (from 'beer'). In Chinese you have Shāfā (from 'sofa') and Qiaokèlì (from 'chocolate').

There are no Egyptian loanwords in the Greek language insofar as the naming of Greek gods is concerned. If you have evidence of it you are welcome to share it.

This is all a gigantic waste of time, however. Even assuming the Greeks did steal the names of their gods from the Egyptians (and there is no evidence they did) it would do absolutely nothing to prove your claim that the Western world stole civilization from Africans. Western civilization is founded on democracy, not Greek mythology.

Quote:Greeks didn't come to Egypt to learn the names of the Egyptian gods.

You're confusing your arguments. Earlier you said this:

(10-04-2019 12:02 PM)Nay_Sayer Wrote: Like I said, ALL of the major Greek scholars went into Africa to learn. That knowledge was then taken back to Greece and formed the basis of their civilization - from which then Western "Civilization" is said to have come.

Now you're saying this:

Quote:The Egyptians came to Greece, set up shop, and established their religion in Greece - which then the Greeks adopted...

I'm sorry. I know it's hard to keep your bullshit straight, but which is it? Did the Greeks go to Egypt and steal civilization from the Egyptians, or did they invite the Egyptians to Greece and then beat them over the head and steal it from them there?

What evidence do you have that Egyptians went to Greece, "set up shop" (what the fuck does that even mean, you idiot?), and established their religion in Greece?

The Greek influence on Egypt is obvious (conquered by Alexander, ruled by Ptolemy and his offspring, later conquered by the Romans), but I'm afraid there just isn't any compelling evidence of the reverse.

Quote:Zeus, Heracles, Apollo - damn near all of them.

Zeus's name comes from the Proto-Indo-European root 'dyeu(s)', which means 'to shine.'

Heracles comes from the Greek words 'Hera' (the Greek goddess) and "Kleos" (meaning 'glory'), i.e. the glory of Hera. (Hera derives her name from the Greek 'hero', i.e. defender or protector.)

Apollo, Poseidon, Hades, and the other gods of Olympus all have similar etymological roots. I've seen no evidence that any of the names for the Greek gods have etymological roots in the Egyptian language. If you have evidence, you can present it.

Quote:Herodotus is my evidence

What was Herodotus's evidence?

Quote:besides the FACT that the Greeks themselves identified their gods with those of Egypt.

I don't know which Greeks you are referring to, but there is no physical or etymological evidence that the Greeks named their gods after Egyptian gods. Not that it matters. Both Greek mythology and Egyptian mythology are dead.

The Greeks' greatest influence on Western civilization was democracy, not mythology. Unless you can prove the Greeks somehow stole democracy (borrowed, learned, pick the least racist verb) from the Egyptians, your claim that Africans invented Western civilization (innovated, gifted, pick the least racist verb) is false at best, deluded and/or dishonest at worst.

Quote:Medicine, Science, Mathematics, Philosophy.

I'd like some specific examples for each of these claims. No links or quotes. Make the argument yourself, in your own words. Leave the link at the end if you must.

(10-04-2019 12:02 PM)Nay_Sayer Wrote: The source I provided establishes without question where the concept of democracy comes from..

Where does it come from? Make the argument in your own words. Be concise. Don't steal (plagiarize, borrow, pick the least racist verb) from others. Leave the link at the end if you must.

And for the love of God, it's one period to end a sentence, not two. Are you retarded or just dumb?