"Thrilla in Manilla Documentary"

[Byrd Man]

Anyone in here that hasn't seen this already? I saw it back when it first came out, and I have to be honest. This documentary truly made me despise Ali.

Anyone that knows me even a little knows that I don't like mean disrespectful people. It's why I don't like Toney and I don't like Floyd.

I respect their accomplishments, but despise them as a person.

I can accept trash talking for a fight, that's for better or worse, a part of the sport. But when you take that shit to another level and either get extremely personal with your attacks or you just put yourself out there as an asshole, I just can't get with that.

I realize I'm probably in the minority with that though, so it's whatever.

But watching that documentary I fucking HATED Ali for what he did to Frazier in the buildup to their three fights. After everything Frazier did for him. Gave him money when he didn't have any, petitioned to get him back in the sport that he loved, and for Ali to go at Joe so hard and so brutally all in the name of hyping a fucking fight....

I can't tell you how many times I said "Fuck that motherfucker" during that documentary.

I didn't care for how Joe reacted late in the doc either about how he was happy Ali was all sick and whatnot. I could definitely understand the hatred in him over what Ali did. That shit was inexcusable.

You don't just decimate a friend over a hyped fight. And then Ali tried to just do some halfass apology to Frazier's son instead of coming to Joe. That was bullshit.

I don't know if he ever reached out to Joe and apologized or whether or not he was sincere in said apology.

I just can't fathom the idea of just publically humiliating in such a personal and hurtful way someone that did so much to help you out.

Maybe that's just me though. I respect his accomplishments in the ring, but after seeing that (which I realize it seemed to be slanted towards Joe's side of things) I just lost respect for Ali.

I respect his stance on the war and his standing up for what he believed in even at a huge sacrifice. I respect his wars in the ring and his accomplishments in the ring and the humanitarian stuff he's done since, but man... that was just so fucked up I can't even express it how much it angered me.

[Method]

I saw it.

I love those two guys, but you are valid in EVERYTHING you say, and I agree with it too.

I choose not to watch that documentary for simple fact that its negative and pisses me off.

[Dickagon]

it's one thing to hype a fight but he dogged Frazier and Frazier was probably the only person trying to help him. what's really messed up is Ali had white backers when he turned pro and then talked all the trash about Frazier having white backers. Frazier was too good of a guy to get talked to like that and i really can't think of Ali being so hard on anyone else. that's why i like Ali the fighter but he really showed what kind of person he's with how he treated Frazier.

[Snoop]

Thomas Hauser put it best:

Quote:AUTHOR?S NOTE: Muhammad Ali has always defied expectations. In the 1960s, he was one of the most loved and hated men in America. Then he became a symbol of good will and courage, embraced by the world.

Now a new wave of revisionism is influencing how people think about Ali. Several high-profile books and documentaries have emphasized Muhammad?s shortcomings and the less attractive aspects of his make-up (such as the cruelties he visited upon Joe Frazier). Meanwhile, at the other end of the spectrum, those with a financial interest in Ali?s name and likeness have blurred his past (often obscuring his revolutionary acts and utterances) for economic gain.

I won?t defend Ali?s treatment of Joe Frazier. It was wrong. I will say, as I?ve said many times before, that Muhammad Ali in the 1960s stood as a beacon of hope for oppressed people all over the world. Every time he looked in the mirror and uttered the phrase, "I?m so pretty," he was saying "black is beautiful" before it became fashionable. When he refused induction into the United States Army, he stood up to armies around the globe in support of the proposition that, unless you have a very good reason for killing people, war is wrong.

Nelson Mandela later declared, ?Ali?s refusal to go to Vietnam and the reasons he gave made him an international hero. The news could not be shut out even by prison walls. He became a real legend to us in prison."

As for African-Americans, Reggie Jackson put the matter in perspective when he said, ?Do you have any idea what Ali meant to black people? He was the leader of a nation; the leader of black America. As a young black, at times I was ashamed of my color; I was ashamed of my hair. And Ali made me proud. I?m just as happy being black now as somebody else is being white, and Ali was part of that growing process. Ali helped raise black people in this country out of mental slavery. The entire experience of being black changed for millions of people because of Ali."

Joe Frazier was an unnecessary casualty of that era.

Full article here: http://www.secondsout.com/columns/thomas...wolfs-eyes

Great read.

[SmartyBeardo]

The way Ali treated Frazier was reprehensible. However, I do believe in redemption and I think Ali has done much in that regard.

[Method]

SmartyBeardo Wrote:The way Ali treated Frazier was reprehensible. However, I do believe in redemption and I think Ali has done much in that regard.

I have no problem w that, and generally agree, depending on my mood.

I just wonder if Ali...I dunno...maybe how remorseful would he be (or not be) if he never had the Pparkinson's.

Still, to be fair, the end of that documentary kinda sickened me too. I didn't care for Joe taking public solace and joy in Ali's state, as was portrayed at the end of that documentary.

I appreciate, respect, and am a fan of both guys. I think at the end of the day their relationship became a casualty of the sport, of our lust to see them beat each other's ass. Too much pride between those two, and that's OK. Not everyone can be Gatti/Ward. I dunno.

Anyway, fact remains, I dont care to watch the documentary anymore because I don't like the negativity throughout it. Its a little bit sad.

[Romulus9]

Love the documentary. It's better than "One Nation Divisible". It really shows the reality of Ali, instead of the absolute bullshit image that is usually portrayed. I get sick of that. Never been an Ali fan and the things shown on that documentary go a long way to show the reasons why. I have nothing but absolute respect for his ability and his accomplishments... but I have nothing for him on a personal level.

In fairness, he has changed his ways to a large degree and I'm glad. The Parkinson's is likely responsible for a lot of that because serious strife has a way of humbling even the most prideful people. Still, too many people think that the Clay who was shouting after beating Liston and the Ali blowing kisses to the crowd after beating Leon Spinks is what really represents the man and it's not. Those are the people who need to sit down and watch Thrilla in Manila.

Just think... would Ali be so beloved had Foreman not fought like a dumbass and fallen into Ali's trap on October 30, 1974? Would it be the same had Foreman backed to the center of the ring, dared Ali to fight him, and knocked him out? Probably not. But it all worked out for the best.

If not for October 30, 1974, we never get November 5, 1994.

Ali-Foreman is one of the most memorable moments in boxing history.

Foreman-Moorer is one of the most memorable, inspiring, and absolutely amazing moments in sport.

[salvador]

Method Wrote:I dont care to watch the documentary anymore because I don't like the negativity throughout it. Its a little bit sad.

I feel that way about all the Ali documentaries because of his treatment of Frazier. I doubt I'll ever sit through another one. I'm glad he lit the flame at the Atlanta Olympics, but that should have been his farewell.

[STEVENSKI]

gravytrain Wrote:it's one thing to hype a fight but he dogged Frazier and Frazier was probably the only person trying to help him. what's really messed up is Ali had white backers when he turned pro and then talked all the trash about Frazier having white backers. Frazier was too good of a guy to get talked to like that and i really can't think of Ali being so hard on anyone else. that's why i like Ali the fighter but he really showed what kind of person he's with how he treated Frazier.

Everyone on here knows my low opinion of Ali & his treatment of Frazier. I completely respect his skills much like Mayweather but that is it pretty much it. Frazier was a great champion & who knows how much greater he would have been viewed has he not had the misfortune to fight in an era where the greatest slick heavyweight & one of the greatest punchers in history were fighting. Frazier had that X factor & Ali was the most scared of Frazier out of all his opponents I believe.

Also I thought I should point out that every post in this thread is a quality post. Getting hard to get used to what I now think of as having no spam posts like the old board.