Andre Ward-Sulivan Barrera

[BrutalBodyShots]

(04-06-2016 12:51 AM)Dickagon Wrote:  Your weight can fluctuate. My weight is consistent because I make a choice to keep it consistent. Weighing in the 180s and 190s doesn't mean he couldn't walk into camp at 184. The only question is if he's a dry 184.

Sure he could walk into camp at 184, but that suggests that prior to camp he was already training to lose muscle mass which by definition means he was already losing strength BEFORE camp even started and he had to think about cutting water weight.

Look, fighters come fight time are always for the most part in great shape assuming they're not heavyweights and have to make weight unless they're like Brandon Rios that fight a division or two above where they could be fighting. They generally have a very low body fat percentage and there isn't much more there to lose. So, if Dawson was fighting in the ring, IN SHAPE, at 187-191 pounds and then several years later enters camp at 184, what does that tell you? You say the question is if he's a dry 184? Why would he be? Why would he dehydrate to walk into camp? He wouldn't. So, clearly, if he came into camp at that weight he was already losing muscle prior. As I stated earlier, that's exactly what Oscar did when he knew he was going to fight Pacquiao. Lose muscle mass, weaken yourself some all in order to not have to dehydrate as much come fight time. DLH went completely overboard with this as he only dehydrated 2 pounds come weigh in time.

You say Dawson wouldn't need to cut hard to take off 16 pounds and rather than reference HIS OWN previous cuts point to average fighter cuts. Why are you talking about 20 pounds being average when you need to look no further than DAWSON'S OWN previous cuts which obviously are more telling pieces of data?

In Dawson's last fight before Ward that we have data on (I don't believe we had any for the Hopkins fights) he weighed in at 174.5 and was 187 on fight night. That's a 12.5 pound cut. So obviously he's not cutting 20 pounds like you referenced some fighters do. If it's not something his body is used to, it's going to be more difficult. Factor in also now that he dropped at LEAST 3-7 pounds of muscle prior to even starting to dehydrate, so he already started with a weaker, lesser massed frame to cut water weight from. It's pretty clear that the feat of making weight against Ward was a considerably tougher challenge than making Light Heavy.

[Dickagon]

http://m.espn.go.com/general/chat/chat?e...rc=desktop

Dawson doesn't even diet until a week out, dude. And by his own admission his diet is shit. So he came into camp weighing 184 eating junk food. The dude isn't killing himself out there to make weight

[BrutalBodyShots]

Are you basing your statement above on that link you posted? Because if so, it contains no evidence to support what you said. And that interview was written regarding a fight at LIGHT HEAVY which has nothing to do with his fight at 168 with Ward. Obviously someone is going to have a different diet when fighting at their normal weight class verses their diet when they are trying to hit a weight they haven't hit in 6 years.

And eating junk food doesn't impact muscle, it impacts fat. Dawson at 187-191 was in shape, was he not? Are you really going to argue that he had a high body fat % for those fights at Light Heavy? Of course not... so if he didn't have fat to lose, what do you think he lost to "come into came at 184" especially if he could eat whatever he wants as you are saying? Muscle my friend. So he was losing strength long before he ever started to sweat out water weight, which further solidifies the fact that he was drained in multiple ways when he faced Ward at 168.

[Dickagon]

You just fucked up, bro.

To make 175 he only starts a diet a week out from the fight and he only cuts back on junk food, he didn't say he cuts it out completely. You've an easy cut if you don't even have to worry about making weight. So if he's such an easy time making weight how's he draining himself to go seven pounds lower? Are all of the big 175 pounders draining themselves by actually trying to make weight?

You lose muscle from your body going into a state of catabolism. How's he losing muscle when eating normally during a camp?

[BrutalBodyShots]

By training less for strength and more for endurance. Obviously a guy is going to have a different diet, training regimen etc. when his goal is to hit a weight 7 pounds less than usual that he hasn't attempted to hit in 6 years.

Shit my body weight is pretty similar to Dawson's. I walk around at 187-190 year round and I'm obviously not in "fighter shape" with 5% body fat or some crap, but I'm in good shape. I could probably dehydrate and "make" 175 without dropping more than a pound or two of real weight, but to hit 168 I'd definitely have to lay off the heavy weights / low reps in the gym and cardio my ass off. The result would be me being weaker in the end after hitting 168. Even with me eating whatever the hell I want, if I stop training strength like I normally do 3-4 times per week I'm going to end up weaker - it's just the way it goes and if I'm dehydrating more on top of that naturally it's going to weaken me further.

[Dickagon]

Come on, bro. Fried chicken and Snickers bars isn't training for shit. Eating that during your camp and cutting back on it a week out is nothing. There's no way you can spin this like it's a natural 175 pounder like LaMotta spending most of his career cutting to middleweight by starving himself and living off of water.

[BrutalBodyShots]

The dude said on a cheat day he may eat a "piece" of a Snickers bar or slip in a slice of pizza. That's all that was said in that interview you linked above, so I don't know why you're painting this picture of him eating piles of shit from the time he gets up until the time he goes to bed. There are probably very few fighters out there that don't eat a few things on a cheat day like Dawson said. Come on, man.

For the last time, Dawson at 187-191 was CUT UP and IN SHAPE with a very small body fat percentage. He wasn't some doughy 187-191 that you're suggesting by mentioning this made up diet you've come up with for him. He was a good sized Light Heavyweight, weight wise on par with Kovalev who most consider to be a BIG Light Heavyweight. Do you think Kovalev could comfortably make 168 and perform well in the ring if so? Well, neither could Dawson.

[and the NEW]

I thought Ward looked terrific against Barrera. He is so damn cagey, he has the boxing IQ of Mayweather, they just completely dictate where the fight goes, the tempo. They are pulling the strings all night long.

Kovalev always has a punchers chance against Ward, but he doesn't like the pressure. Ward is great at putting it on you in the inside and he knows how to close that distance. I think the safest bet here is the fight ends inside the distance. Kovalev will get mauled by Ward on the inside, or he will lay Ward out cold. But I would bet on the former rather than the latter, I think Ward has a shaky moment, but surprises everybody by coming at Kovalev and beating him down like he did Chad Dawson. If Pascal (like he did at moments in their first fight) can make you uncomfortable when under pressure, then you are in a world of pain when Ward is doing that to you for entire rounds!