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Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers.
08-13-2017, 03:54 PM (This post was last modified: 08-13-2017 03:55 PM by blackbelt2003.)
Post: #611
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers.
In the eyes of a casual fan, yeah.

When Floyd beat Corrales, he was great.
When he beat Gatti, De La Hoya, Cotto, Mosley, Canelo and Pacquiao he was great.


Doing something shitty and flopping at age 40 when you've been retired for two years doesn't suddenly mean you weren't great at 24 or 28 or 36.


I'm no Floyd fan. I think he's a poor man's Ray Leonard (or rich man's, if you catch my drift) and a sorry poster boy for boxing in the new Millennium.


But he was great. And taking part in a sorry spectacle in 2017 when he's a 40 year old ex-champion may (and will) damage his reputation and his standing as a boxer, but it literally cannot change how great he was ten, five or two years ago.



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08-13-2017, 05:07 PM
Post: #612
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers.
(08-13-2017 03:54 PM)blackbelt2003 Wrote:  In the eyes of a casual fan, yeah.

When Floyd beat Corrales, he was great.
When he beat Gatti, De La Hoya, Cotto, Mosley, Canelo and Pacquiao he was great.


Doing something shitty and flopping at age 40 when you've been retired for two years doesn't suddenly mean you weren't great at 24 or 28 or 36.


I'm no Floyd fan. I think he's a poor man's Ray Leonard (or rich man's, if you catch my drift) and a sorry poster boy for boxing in the new Millennium.


But he was great. And taking part in a sorry spectacle in 2017 when he's a 40 year old ex-champion may (and will) damage his reputation and his standing as a boxer, but it literally cannot change how great he was ten, five or two years ago.



Black

I kinda agree about this and it's why I personally rate Roy ahead of Floyd despite all these embarrassing late career losses. When Roy was at his peak he was untouchable in a way that Floyd wasn't and his peak was decently long too. If Roy had retired straight after the Ruiz win I think many would have him in the top 3-5 of all time.

“Shakespeare? I ain’t never hoid of him. He’s not in no ratings. I suppose he’s one of them foreign heavyweights. They’re all lousy. Sure as hell I’ll moider dat bum.”—Tony Galento
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08-13-2017, 08:42 PM (This post was last modified: 08-13-2017 08:48 PM by and the NEW.)
Post: #613
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers.
Only thing is, Floyd ain't losing. The only questions in this one are: 1) how embarassing Connor looks throwing off balance shots at air; and 2) how much Floyd turns it up and puts the beatdown on him, or will he instead coast to a showboating, trash talking shutout.

I'm glad this one is nearly here, the hype seems to have run its course now. Then we can get onto the real fights. Like the best flyweight card in history ever put together, or the GGG vs Canelo high-skilled war.

A fight for all four belts in Crawford vs Indongo has barely got a mention. It is all about whether Connor legit knocked down fat Malignaggi in the boxing press. What a sideshow this thing is.
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08-14-2017, 11:06 PM
Post: #614
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers.
I agree that you can't erase achievements or history but you also couldn't erase the fact Mayweather would have eventually lost to a guy making his debut which will go down in the history books.

30 years from now people could look back & see despite the talent and undefeated run, that Mayweather's career isn't as great as it looks due to when he fought these fighters and all the fights he never took & was eventually beaten by a UFC fighter.

Would Joe Calzaghe be considered as great as he is if Jones pulled the upset? Despite making history for the most title defenses at Super Middleweight..I don't think he would have.

Although I'm being critical of Mayweather's career & resume I can acknowledge he has done enough through longevity to be considered a great but a loss here would still effect his all time ranking amongst other greats.

Had Andre Berto beat Mayweather would that have effected his greatness? If not..at which point of Floyd's career would a loss have effected his greatness? I never saw anyone say Floyd was faded or old in the Berto fight.

Despite being 40 and inactive I don't believe that would be a good enough reason to excuse this or chalk it up as Floyd being faded. It would actually be a cop out to discredit a McGregor win here as this is meant to be a given win for Floyd.

It's not like Conor is fighting Oscar De La Hoya or Ike Quartey here who are actually retired, faded & shot. I could see how in that circumstance it wouldn't effect their all time rankings..maybe their rep.

But Mayweather still floats in people p4p lists and even on top of some. Mayweather has been in many "retirements" since he took on some tiny dude moving up 2 divisions.

Despite Mayweather being secured as an all time great..I just don't see how a Mayweather loss here wouldn't effect his place in history and all time rankings..
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08-14-2017, 11:20 PM
Post: #615
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers.
(08-14-2017 11:06 PM)ViperSniper Wrote:  I agree that you can't erase achievements or history but you also couldn't erase the fact Mayweather would have eventually lost to a guy making his debut which will go down in the history books.

30 years from now people could look back & see despite the talent and undefeated run, that Mayweather's career isn't as great as it looks due to when he fought these fighters and all the fights he never took & was eventually beaten by a UFC fighter.

Would Joe Calzaghe be considered as great as he is if Jones pulled the upset? Despite making history for the most title defenses at Super Middleweight..I don't think he would have.

Although I'm being critical of Mayweather's career & resume I can acknowledge he has done enough through longevity to be considered a great but a loss here would still effect his all time ranking amongst other greats.

Had Andre Berto beat Mayweather would that have effected his greatness? If not..at which point of Floyd's career would a loss have effected his greatness? I never saw anyone say Floyd was faded or old in the Berto fight.

Despite being 40 and inactive I don't believe that would be a good enough reason to excuse this or chalk it up as Floyd being faded. It would actually be a cop out to discredit a McGregor win here as this is meant to be a given win for Floyd.

It's not like Conor is fighting Oscar De La Hoya or Ike Quartey here who are actually retired, faded & shot. I could see how in that circumstance it wouldn't effect their all time rankings..maybe their rep.

But Mayweather still floats in people p4p lists and even on top of some. Mayweather has been in many "retirements" since he took on some tiny dude moving up 2 divisions.

Despite Mayweather being secured as an all time great..I just don't see how a Mayweather loss here wouldn't effect his place in history and all time rankings..


Personally, and it is only my rule, I'm always prepared to give an ATG one 'off' night over the course of the peak of their career, which is why I guess you have to hand it to Floyd for never losing (although JLC clearly beat him IMHO the 1st time around.) So for me 'no' losing to Berto wouldn't have tarnished Floyd's career overly, it is the ducks and semi-retirement and fight delays that really hurt him most.

I'll put it to you, if Angelo Dundee hadn't cut Ali's glove and henry Cooper had had the chance to finish him when he was still badly buzzed how would you have viewed Ali? Would it change your ranking of him?

“Shakespeare? I ain’t never hoid of him. He’s not in no ratings. I suppose he’s one of them foreign heavyweights. They’re all lousy. Sure as hell I’ll moider dat bum.”—Tony Galento
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08-14-2017, 11:59 PM (This post was last modified: 08-15-2017 12:00 AM by ViperSniper.)
Post: #616
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers.
Well yeah if that were the case it may have changed slightly because we would have seen Ali get stopped by the Englishmen instead of turning that fight around and eventually losing to a an all time great in Fraizer when they were both undefeated. If not..then what's the point of having wins & losses. In this scenario with Mayweather-McGregor..I just don't see how a loss for Mayweather wouldn't effect his all time rankings once everything is said and done.
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08-15-2017, 12:37 AM
Post: #617
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers.
(08-14-2017 11:59 PM)ViperSniper Wrote:  Well yeah if that were the case it may have changed slightly because we would have seen Ali get stopped by the Englishmen instead of turning that fight around and eventually losing to a an all time great in Fraizer when they were both undefeated. If not..then what's the point of having wins & losses. In this scenario with Mayweather-McGregor..I just don't see how a loss for Mayweather wouldn't effect his all time rankings once everything is said and done.

I can't even take this event seriously enough to consider mayweather losing. If he lost I would simply assume that it is some type of set-up for a rematch. This whole thing is so WWE-esque to me, which is why I thought your 'Floyd losing to Berto' comparison was a more interesting question.

“Shakespeare? I ain’t never hoid of him. He’s not in no ratings. I suppose he’s one of them foreign heavyweights. They’re all lousy. Sure as hell I’ll moider dat bum.”—Tony Galento
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08-15-2017, 01:28 AM
Post: #618
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers.
(08-15-2017 12:37 AM)the ollie reed fan club Wrote:  I can't even take this event seriously enough to consider mayweather losing. If he lost I would simply assume that it is some type of set-up for a rematch. This whole thing is so WWE-esque to me, which is why I thought your 'Floyd losing to Berto' comparison was a more interesting question.

I also can't take this event seriously which is why it bothers me that I've even got some form of interest to it or speaking hypothetics here.

I can't wait till this is over.
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08-15-2017, 02:49 AM
Post: #619
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers.
(08-15-2017 01:28 AM)ViperSniper Wrote:  I also can't take this event seriously which is why it bothers me that I've even got some form of interest to it or speaking hypothetics here.

I can't wait till this is over.

I know I'm gonna give in and buy it as well, LOL. It will only be about 40 bucks in NZ, not enough for me to feel any pain in purchasing it. Fuck, fuck, fuck it.

“Shakespeare? I ain’t never hoid of him. He’s not in no ratings. I suppose he’s one of them foreign heavyweights. They’re all lousy. Sure as hell I’ll moider dat bum.”—Tony Galento
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08-15-2017, 03:36 AM (This post was last modified: 08-15-2017 03:36 AM by blackbelt2003.)
Post: #620
RE: Potential Mayweather-McGregor numbers.
The thing is though, Viper, you rank a fighter's greatness based on how great they were at their best times (and how long those best times went on for) not how shitty they were at their worst times.

If a fighter is genuinely great, and that greatness continues for a long period of time (as it did with Floyd), then nothing after the fact can alter that.

If it does, then our entire ATG rankings are based on how 'perfect ' their career was and if they managed to retire at the right time. Someone like Roberto Duran is screwed as he got beat up by William Joppy in his 40's, but Calzaghe and Floyd are top dogs as they 'got out' before they suffered a loss after their primes.


Therefore, for me, it's about what you achieved rather than what you fucked up on.



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