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If you could have one fighter fight for your life?
01-12-2017, 01:59 AM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 02:38 AM by and the NEW.)
Post: #31
RE: If you could have one fighter fight for your life?
(01-11-2017 12:09 PM)blackbelt2003 Wrote:  But could they hang with someone from the modern era?

Tunney may have looked skillful outmanoeuvring a primitive guy like Dempsey...but would he have done the same with someone from the modern era, like Joe Louis or Mike Tyson who knew how to cut the ring down?

#catamongstthepigeons #neverquestionoldschoolfighters #boxingsbiggesttaboo

Black

But I'm talking about 175, he wouldn't be in with Tyson and Louis.
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01-12-2017, 05:52 AM
Post: #32
RE: If you could have one fighter fight for your life?
Joe Louis was taught how to box by one of those old time fighters. The technique was there but footage of fights from those days can be pretty limited. It'd be like using Klit to represent modern boxing technique
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01-12-2017, 05:57 AM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 06:03 AM by blackbelt2003.)
Post: #33
RE: If you could have one fighter fight for your life?
(01-11-2017 11:28 PM)JONdaCON Wrote:  Man those guys were built for 45 rounders or until someone quit.

Not to mention the fear of being lynched if he won. I mean, in the case of Jacc, thousands of white people watching you do something to a white man that NO OTHER blacc man has done much less gotten away with...

Guys like that would eat Tyson alive. Going into a fight expecting to die will turn any man into a monster.

Yeah, but I know guys like that at the pub by me, covered in tattoos, no family and don't give a shit about anything.

There are farmers in Russia who literally fight for their life every day and have no fear of any man.


That doesn't mean they have the skill to last three minutes in a boxing ring with a top pro, though.


Looking at the videos of old pre-1920's fighters, they just didn't have the skill level boxers from the 1940's onwards had...same as MMA guys twenty years ago didn't have the level guys now do.

It's not their fault...no sport is immediately going to have high skill levels until it's had a few decades developing.

No way Gene Tunney lasts more than a few rounds with a modern world class boxer at 160 up.



Black

(01-12-2017 05:52 AM)Dickagon Wrote:  Joe Louis was taught how to box by one of those old time fighters. The technique was there but footage of fights from those days can be pretty limited. It'd be like using Klit to represent modern boxing technique


Of course he was...and he developed what he learned and ADDED to it to make his a more modern style.


There is a MASSIVE skills gap from boxing in the 1910's to the 1930's and 40's. It's obviously there...you only have to look at it impartially. There's bound to be. Boxing didn't get invented (in it's current form) in the 1870's and suddenly everyone was as good as they are in modern era overnight. It HAD to take decades of development in which the fighters were still learning and developing the best techniques. A roughly modern style of boxing, a kind of apogee of technical ability and skills, was reached approximately in the 1930's. I believe it peaked in the 50's and 60's, and has kind of plateau'd since then.

So to fantasy match anyone from before that 1930's era against anyone long after it is like saying Royce Gracie would fair OK with Jon Bones Jones in a cage.


Black
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01-12-2017, 08:27 AM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 08:39 AM by and the NEW.)
Post: #34
RE: If you could have one fighter fight for your life?
Wowa, Black, get your shit together man. You are telling me Benny Leonard was primitive? And Gene Tunny wouldn't last more than a few rounds against a modern 160lb fighter and up? I would take Tunny against any guy 175lbs or below today. He wasn't slick, but his timing, durability and ability ousts Kovalev.

Boxing as we know it really began in the 1880s. By the 1920s (40 years later), it was well developed. James J Corbett was called the father of modern boxing, and he fought in the 1890s, some 30 years earlier. MMA started in the 1990s, how far are we on, 20 years? You can't compare Benny Leonard and Gene Tunney to pioneers like John L Sullivan who fought 40 years earlier. That is like comparing guys who will appear in the 2030s to Royce Gracie.

Even the hall of fame classifies guys such as the Sullivan's of the world (equivalent to Royce Gracie) as pioneers (1880s). Guys like Lou Ambers, who never fought before the 1930s (your cut off day for modern boxing) are in the same class as Tunney and Leonard, the old timers. Boxing wasn't as slick back then, but neither are the Eastern Europeans today, and they are blowing out the Americans. They have the sweet science as their focus, not looking good.
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01-12-2017, 10:20 AM
Post: #35
RE: If you could have one fighter fight for your life?
(01-12-2017 08:27 AM)and the NEW Wrote:  Wowa, Black, get your shit together man. You are telling me Benny Leonard was primitive? And Gene Tunny wouldn't last more than a few rounds against a modern 160lb fighter and up? I would take Tunny against any guy 175lbs or below today. He wasn't slick, but his timing, durability and ability ousts Kovalev.

Boxing as we know it really began in the 1880s. By the 1920s (40 years later), it was well developed. James J Corbett was called the father of modern boxing, and he fought in the 1890s, some 30 years earlier. MMA started in the 1990s, how far are we on, 20 years? You can't compare Benny Leonard and Gene Tunney to pioneers like John L Sullivan who fought 40 years earlier. That is like comparing guys who will appear in the 2030s to Royce Gracie.

Even the hall of fame classifies guys such as the Sullivan's of the world (equivalent to Royce Gracie) as pioneers (1880s). Guys like Lou Ambers, who never fought before the 1930s (your cut off day for modern boxing) are in the same class as Tunney and Leonard, the old timers. Boxing wasn't as slick back then, but neither are the Eastern Europeans today, and they are blowing out the Americans. They have the sweet science as their focus, not looking good.

I like this! Look at Kovalev, he is one of, if not the best fighter at the moment, yet there are other fighters more skilled and talented. Kovalev may not be flashy but has an understanding of the game.
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01-12-2017, 02:35 PM
Post: #36
RE: If you could have one fighter fight for your life?
Boxing was a different sport in its infancy. It's bareknuckle fights with a gentleman's agreement to wear gloves. Styles changed because fights changed. But you can look at someone like Joe Gans and see how much technique had developed during that time period and how much better it's. You really just can't find a lot of fight tapes from those days and what you can find is limited.
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01-12-2017, 04:26 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 04:31 PM by Fitz.)
Post: #37
RE: If you could have one fighter fight for your life?
(01-12-2017 05:57 AM)blackbelt2003 Wrote:  Yeah, but I know guys like that at the pub by me, covered in tattoos, no family and don't give a shit about anything.

There are farmers in Russia who literally fight for their life every day and have no fear of any man.


That doesn't mean they have the skill to last three minutes in a boxing ring with a top pro, though.


Looking at the videos of old pre-1920's fighters, they just didn't have the skill level boxers from the 1940's onwards had...same as MMA guys twenty years ago didn't have the level guys now do.

It's not their fault...no sport is immediately going to have high skill levels until it's had a few decades developing.

No way Gene Tunney lasts more than a few rounds with a modern world class boxer at 160 up.



Black



Of course he was...and he developed what he learned and ADDED to it to make his a more modern style.


There is a MASSIVE skills gap from boxing in the 1910's to the 1930's and 40's. It's obviously there...you only have to look at it impartially. There's bound to be. Boxing didn't get invented (in it's current form) in the 1870's and suddenly everyone was as good as they are in modern era overnight. It HAD to take decades of development in which the fighters were still learning and developing the best techniques. A roughly modern style of boxing, a kind of apogee of technical ability and skills, was reached approximately in the 1930's. I believe it peaked in the 50's and 60's, and has kind of plateau'd since then.

So to fantasy match anyone from before that 1930's era against anyone long after it is like saying Royce Gracie would fair OK with Jon Bones Jones in a cage.


Black

Great post black. I agree about skills evolving over decades and the skill and quality looks obvious in the gap between decades that you described.

Even though there is no fight footage of him, though people still consider him one of the greatest. I always like the training footage to point out what you have just said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNE6V_RyBwg
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01-12-2017, 07:50 PM
Post: #38
RE: If you could have one fighter fight for your life?
Marg had no technique and he won a title in this era. Maidana sucks and look at what he did to Floyd.
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01-12-2017, 09:34 PM
Post: #39
RE: If you could have one fighter fight for your life?
(01-12-2017 04:26 PM)Fitz Wrote:  Great post black. I agree about skills evolving over decades and the skill and quality looks obvious in the gap between decades that you described.

Even though there is no fight footage of him, though people still consider him one of the greatest. I always like the training footage to point out what you have just said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNE6V_RyBwg

I think Soulja Boy may have been watching some of this Harry Greb shadow boxing. Harry Greb AND Emmanuel Augustus, I may have to triple down on that boy, he's on the advanced shit.

“Shakespeare? I ain’t never hoid of him. He’s not in no ratings. I suppose he’s one of them foreign heavyweights. They’re all lousy. Sure as hell I’ll moider dat bum.”—Tony Galento
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01-12-2017, 09:39 PM
Post: #40
RE: If you could have one fighter fight for your life?
Harry Greb looked ridiculous shadow boxing, but that doesn't mean that he couldn't fight. That's like using the video of Mike Tyson falling off of the hoverboard as proof that fighters have declined.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83Eiogl9ziA

"And you got your own steez about you that I appreciate bro. I see it." - Snoop
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