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New Boxing Tournament with Schaeffer/Sauerland
03-10-2017, 11:47 PM
Post: #11
RE: New Boxing Tournament with Schaeffer/Sauerland
Promoters do have their own belts though. Remember when Don King basically owned the WBA? GBP does own Ring. All of that is just background noise anyway. If HBO and Showtime can work together to make the best fights available, then 2 promotional leagues can as well.

I'm not saying that the model is perfect, because nothing is. But it is the closest thing that I have seen for a fighting sport, and a proven winner in the current market.

"And you got your own steez about you that I appreciate bro. I see it." - Snoop
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03-11-2017, 12:29 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2017 12:31 AM by Snoop.)
Post: #12
RE: New Boxing Tournament with Schaeffer/Sauerland
I mean I'm definitely not saying that boxing should remain the way it is and there are certainly plenty of good things they can take away from the UFC, but even if they began to consider it, there would be a bunch of shit to untie. For instance, if they followed the UFC model, which is basically like one promoter, who would be the one to be in charge? How are they going to make the other guys step aside? It's virtually impossible because boxing was made on a different model of foundation.

Plus, I think all the different sanctioning bodies and promotions were created to prevent one entity from controlling the sport. Sure, there's shady deals and corruption all throughout boxing, but ideally there is a system of checks and balances. That doesn't really exist in the UFC.

And I guess it depends on what you consider a "winner" in the current market. If we're talking about growing viewership and popularity, then yes, I would agree with you. But if it's about having clarity of championships in a sport (MMA), then they're actually further away from that than boxing is.

All heart. That's what most little guys are.
But that counts for a lot. In the gym or
the ring all you gotta do is get up
one more time than the other guy thinks you can.

- Gabrielle Calvocoressi

http://www.wanderingpugilist.com
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03-11-2017, 12:49 AM
Post: #13
RE: New Boxing Tournament with Schaeffer/Sauerland
Who would be in charge? Whoever thinks of it first and puts their money behind it. It really doesn't matter what the other promoters and sanctioning bodies do. Whoever starts it, creates their own belts and makes their own fights. If it is successful, then fighters will sign on to it. At the end of the day, that is all that matters. What the fighters sign on to. That will be the biggest challenge, not the other promoters/sanctioning bodies.

"And you got your own steez about you that I appreciate bro. I see it." - Snoop
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03-11-2017, 01:35 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2017 01:36 AM by and the NEW.)
Post: #14
RE: New Boxing Tournament with Schaeffer/Sauerland
This is a great idea. Winner in each weight division will get around $10mil for 3 fights. Considering Garcia and Thurman just got $2 mil for their last fight, Lomachenko earns up to $1 mil, this means that this amount of money will get basically everybody involved bar the highest paid few, like Canelo, Pac and Klit (neither will be around much longer anyways) and probably Joshua.

The trouble is the fighters have to be ranked top 15 by one of the sanctioning bodies in their own weight division. So if they do a tourney at feather (and this is one division that is being talked about) you couldn't get Loma dropping down and Rigo jumping up for it. Imagine putting those two in a tourney with Russell Jr, Selby, Valdez, Santa Cruz, Frampton, Mares (or Jo Jo Diaz)! That is a stacked top 8!
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03-11-2017, 02:46 AM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2017 02:48 AM by Snoop.)
Post: #15
RE: New Boxing Tournament with Schaeffer/Sauerland
(03-11-2017 12:49 AM)Spyder Wrote:  Who would be in charge? Whoever thinks of it first and puts their money behind it. It really doesn't matter what the other promoters and sanctioning bodies do. Whoever starts it, creates their own belts and makes their own fights. If it is successful, then fighters will sign on to it. At the end of the day, that is all that matters. What the fighters sign on to. That will be the biggest challenge, not the other promoters/sanctioning bodies.

I think it's going to be a lot more complicated than you're making it out to be. You're basically proposing a complete reformation of a sport that no single entity has control of, and no single company has enough money to pull that off. Think about it. Let's just say Top Rank is the one to attempt to do this. They create their own tournament, their own belt, and their own ranking system. Do you really think Top Rank would be able to bankroll all of the top fighters to participate in their particular league of boxing? Of course not, because each superstar fighter would require too much money. And why is that? Because there is a competing promotional company that can offer it to them.

Furthermore, do you really think that the boxing public is just going to disregard all the other ranking systems and promotional companies? Say the tournament in question is being held at welterweight and for whatever reason, Kell Brook is not included in the tournament. People aren't going to just suddenly accept that Kell Brook should no longer be considered an elite level fighter just because the entity doesn't recognize him, nor should they. Granted, the way sanctioning bodies are now have created a whole slew of problems in boxing, but ideally they serve a purpose and they should be kept separate from a promotional company. Again, that doesn't really happen that much due to bribes, corruption or whatever, but it sure as hell doesn't happen in the UFC because the promoter and the sanctioning body are one in the same.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the industry of boxing would be very complicated to dismantle, and it wouldn't be as simple as "just doing it". There are also a number of issues with the way the UFC is structured, so I don't know that replicating their model would be the best thing for the sport. Taking some of their approaches, sure, but a complete restructure I'm not so sure about.

All heart. That's what most little guys are.
But that counts for a lot. In the gym or
the ring all you gotta do is get up
one more time than the other guy thinks you can.

- Gabrielle Calvocoressi

http://www.wanderingpugilist.com
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03-11-2017, 03:19 AM
Post: #16
RE: New Boxing Tournament with Schaeffer/Sauerland
(03-11-2017 02:46 AM)Snoop Wrote:  I think it's going to be a lot more complicated than you're making it out to be. You're basically proposing a complete reformation of a sport that no single entity has control of, and no single company has enough money to pull that off. Think about it. Let's just say Top Rank is the one to attempt to do this. They create their own tournament, their own belt, and their own ranking system. Do you really think Top Rank would be able to bankroll all of the top fighters to participate in their particular league of boxing? Of course not, because each superstar fighter would require too much money. And why is that? Because there is a competing promotional company that can offer it to them.

Furthermore, do you really think that the boxing public is just going to disregard all the other ranking systems and promotional companies? Say the tournament in question is being held at welterweight and for whatever reason, Kell Brook is not included in the tournament. People aren't going to just suddenly accept that Kell Brook should no longer be considered an elite level fighter just because the entity doesn't recognize him, nor should they. Granted, the way sanctioning bodies are now have created a whole slew of problems in boxing, but ideally they serve a purpose and they should be kept separate from a promotional company. Again, that doesn't really happen that much due to bribes, corruption or whatever, but it sure as hell doesn't happen in the UFC because the promoter and the sanctioning body are one in the same.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the industry of boxing would be very complicated to dismantle, and it wouldn't be as simple as "just doing it". There are also a number of issues with the way the UFC is structured, so I don't know that replicating their model would be the best thing for the sport. Taking some of their approaches, sure, but a complete restructure I'm not so sure about.
Kinda like how the AFL was never going to be able to compete with the NFL? It's happened before. The UFC basically invented a sport, set the rules, developed the fighters, built a fanbase out of nowhere...and that all happened in the last 20 years. All that I'm talking about is organizing a sport that already exists, and fixing the aspects that people complain about.

How hard do you really think it would be for Al Haymon and 1 other promoter to get their guys to be the champions of a new boxing league? Al already has a deal worked out with the major networks...more people watched Keith Thurman fight Danny Garcia, than Floyd/Pac. The money is there, the blueprint is there, someone just has to have the guts to do it.

"And you got your own steez about you that I appreciate bro. I see it." - Snoop
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03-11-2017, 01:06 PM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2017 01:07 PM by Snoop.)
Post: #17
RE: New Boxing Tournament with Schaeffer/Sauerland
(03-11-2017 03:19 AM)Spyder Wrote:  Kinda like how the AFL was never going to be able to compete with the NFL? It's happened before. The UFC basically invented a sport, set the rules, developed the fighters, built a fanbase out of nowhere...and that all happened in the last 20 years. All that I'm talking about is organizing a sport that already exists, and fixing the aspects that people complain about.

How hard do you really think it would be for Al Haymon and 1 other promoter to get their guys to be the champions of a new boxing league? Al already has a deal worked out with the major networks...more people watched Keith Thurman fight Danny Garcia, than Floyd/Pac. The money is there, the blueprint is there, someone just has to have the guts to do it.

Well I guess it depends on what you would prefer. Would you prefer having say an Al Haymon league of boxing that competing only amongst Haymon fighters, then have a separate Golden Boy league whose fighters contractually could not fight those from the former league, or the way it is now? There are pros and cons to each structure, is all I'm saying. I mean to your NFL vs AFL example, sure it's happened before, but that means that not all the best athletes in a sport are competing against one another, which is kind of what's happening in MMA with the UFC.

With the Thurman-Garcia example, I think a lot of the success to that fight had to do with it being aired for free on broadcast television, and not necessarily because they're both promoted by Haymon. Did it help that there was only one promoter to deal with networks, sanctioning bodies, fighters, etc.? Oh yeah, definitely. There's no doubt that boxing needs to trim the fat when it comes to how many parties are involved in putting a fight together, but I guess I'm also not 100% comfortable with boxing being completely run by one person/entity either.

Either way, I'll give it to you for your optimism; I personally think it would be much more difficult to dismantle the current system given the money, parties and egos involved, but if I'm wrong about that and there can be some crucial changes made to revive the sport, then I'm all for it.

All heart. That's what most little guys are.
But that counts for a lot. In the gym or
the ring all you gotta do is get up
one more time than the other guy thinks you can.

- Gabrielle Calvocoressi

http://www.wanderingpugilist.com
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03-11-2017, 02:31 PM
Post: #18
RE: New Boxing Tournament with Schaeffer/Sauerland
I don't see how anyone thinks one man can't run the sport. Look at Al Haymon.
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