Politics Unfiltered

[Spyder]

(07-15-2014 02:17 AM)the ollie reed fan club Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 01:49 AM)Spyder Wrote:  Nope. I'm not a rich corporation and the healthcare I've always received in this country has been top notch. My parents aren't a rich corporation, and neither is my daughter...yet everyone in my family has received the best healthcare in the world.

Weird, huh?

A serious question, how do you know it is the best healthcare in the world? Some of those Scandinavian countries with their high tax system have some pretty outstanding free healthcare plans.

I'm not saying that you can't get good healthcare in other countries, but the US remains the world leader in top hospitals and medical innovations. My concern is anything that puts a hamper on that innovation.

I'm fortunate that I live near 2 Level V trauma centers, one of the best children's hospitals in the world, and one of the best Oncology hospitals in the world. But even if I didn't. Even if those hospitals were not here, there are more a couple of hours up the road...one of which is a "destination" hospital that rich foreigners travel across the world to get to.

If the US was not the best, if there was another country that provided better healthcare, then those rich foreigners would not come here...they would go there.

[the ollie reed fan club]

(07-15-2014 02:42 AM)Spyder Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 02:17 AM)the ollie reed fan club Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 01:49 AM)Spyder Wrote:  Nope. I'm not a rich corporation and the healthcare I've always received in this country has been top notch. My parents aren't a rich corporation, and neither is my daughter...yet everyone in my family has received the best healthcare in the world.

Weird, huh?

A serious question, how do you know it is the best healthcare in the world? Some of those Scandinavian countries with their high tax system have some pretty outstanding free healthcare plans.

I'm not saying that you can't get good healthcare in other countries, but the US remains the world leader in top hospitals and medical innovations. My concern is anything that puts a hamper on that innovation.

I'm fortunate that I live near 2 Level V trauma centers, one of the best children's hospitals in the world, and one of the best Oncology hospitals in the world. But even if I didn't. Even if those hospitals were not here, there are more a couple of hours up the road...one of which is a "destination" hospital that rich foreigners travel across the world to get to.

If the US was not the best, if there was another country that provided better healthcare, then those rich foreigners would not come here...they would go there.

Really Spyder I'm surprised that in a debate as serious as this one you'd proffer evidence as to the validity of your argument being 'rich foreigners come to our hospitals.' That is seriously weak and has no quantifiable way of being measured and you know it. I'll tell you this though, medical tourism is going gangbusters all over the world and whilst many people may be going to America they are also going to places in Europe and Australasia (among others) to seek the best treatment they can get.

However putting that to one side for a moment I have a few scenario's that I would like one of my American friends to explain to me as I am genuinely interested to better understand how healthcare works for you guys.

Lets say we have 3 people.

Joe is 40 years old and unemployed.

Mike is 40 years old and has a salaried job of say 50K per year.

Harold is 65 and has just retired.

NONE of them have medical insurance.

Scenario A.

They discover a lump on the side of their neck. They go to their doctor who is unsure of what it is so he refers them to a specialist through the public health system. The specialist runs some tests and discovers it is cancer. They then have to go into hospital to have an operation to remove the cancer and then get chemo.

Once the doctor refers them to a specialist it is then free or do they have to pay? And how long do they wait going through the public system?

Scenario B.

They are out riding their motorcycle. The road is slippery and they crash into a lamppost and although the injuries are not life threatening they are taken to hospital where they need an emergency operation on their knee which is badly smashed. At a later date it is also discovered that they will need a further operation on their back to fuse some vertebrate together. They will also need some ongoing physio treatment for both their back and knee.

In this case will all this be paid for by the state and they won't be refused from any hospital for not having insurance?

Curious to know how all three guys go in both scenarios.

[BrotherCane]

Well, maybe they can turn healthcare around but I really don't see how when it increases an already unfunded Medicaid...it just doesn't seem possible to me! Unfunded liabilities is going to become our biggest problem. It was proven many years ago that there are NO FREE LUNCHES yet people get sent to Washington to bring home free lunches! Good thing there are so many voters out there who don't understand history and economics!

That goes for both sides too! Example, Bush passed Medicare Plan D drug program which is totally unfunded, on top of Medicaid, Medicare, SS, and the rest of the Nanny State we are building! You see, I didn't like Bush because he is a progressive...he did the plan D, TSA, The Patriot Act and grew the size and scope of the central government....How in the hell is that conservative? It's not at all! And ☪b☭ma is Bush on steroids in spending and government intervention.This guy hits the nail right on the head in my view!

http://strike-the-root.com/neocons-and-p...of-grandeu

[Dickagon]

Ollie, with B they'd just be getting that bill in the mail and having to pay it off. Or don't pay it off and be fucked. With A they'd be paying for the copay for their doctor up front, then the specialist then get a bill from the hospital. With no insurance there's no public system.

[Decagon]

(07-15-2014 01:49 AM)Spyder Wrote:  Nope. I'm not a rich corporation and the healthcare I've always received in this country has been top notch. My parents aren't a rich corporation, and neither is my daughter...yet everyone in my family has received the best healthcare in the world.

Weird, huh?

See, you're arguing through personal experience, which is teh failure because there is nothing to compare it to. You don't know what healthcare is like in other countries through personal experience, so your personal experience is meaningless. I, on the other hand, am arguing through statistics put forth by the W.H.O. and U.N.E.S.C.O., among others, which clearly show that America lags behind the industrialized world in almost all categories.

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(07-15-2014 08:41 AM)BrotherCane Wrote:  ☪b☭ma is Bush on steroids in spending and government intervention.

Damn, that's stupid. Statistics show that Obama has reduced the deficit, while Bush increased it. You fail.

[Spyder]

(07-15-2014 05:20 AM)the ollie reed fan club Wrote:  Lets say we have 3 people.

Joe is 40 years old and unemployed.

Mike is 40 years old and has a salaried job of say 50K per year.

Harold is 65 and has just retired.

NONE of them have medical insurance.

Let me stop you right there. This is a meaningless scenario because all 3 guys would be insured. Joe would be insured through unemployment insurance or medicaid, Mike would have insurance through his employer, and Harold would be on Medicare.

All 3 guys would be covered. The left like to make US Healthcare seem like some exclusive club that only a select amount of people can use, when in fact, the overwhelming majority of Americans have access to affordable healthcare.

Only a very small percent of Americans...mostly freelance, self-employed...need to get insurance from the private market. The left likes to throw the illegal migrant workers in to pad this number.

(07-15-2014 10:59 AM)Decagon Wrote:  See, you're arguing through personal experience, which is teh failure because there is nothing to compare it to. You don't know what healthcare is like in other countries through personal experience, so your personal experience is meaningless. I, on the other hand, am arguing through statistics put forth by the W.H.O. and U.N.E.S.C.O., among others, which clearly show that America lags behind the industrialized world in almost all categories.

Personal experience is all that should matter. If it is good for you, awesome. If it sucks, change it. Point being...healthcare did not become a problem in this country until the left started fucking with it. If you wanted healthcare...get a job. Too old to work? Don't worry, we got you. Don't want to work? Fine, we'll cover you too.

This whole thing has been a left-wing power grab from the beginning. Disagreeing with that is dishonest.

[Decagon]

But you have nothing to compare it to, so your argument fails.

[Spyder]

(07-15-2014 01:38 PM)Decagon Wrote:  But you have nothing to compare it to, so your argument fails.

Why would I need to compare it to anything if it is awesome? Before the libtards started fucking with healthcare, it would cost me $100 to have a kid. Literally, I could show up to the hospital with $100 in my pocket, and insurance would pick up the rest. Now, it costs me at least $1200 if everything goes perfectly fine.

So yeah, there's your comparison.

[Decagon]

Source?

[Spyder]

(07-15-2014 02:17 PM)Decagon Wrote:  Source?

Personal experience.

But if you want to look it up...Humana HMO 2007 vs Aetna PPO 2014

My Humana plan was A THIRD the fucking cost of payroll deductions as well.