Kovalev vs Pascal

[Fitz]

Maybe it's a 'great middleweight' thing to do. 3 of the greatest middleweights of all time owned a division without jumping around. Hagler, Monzon and Hopkins.

[TheTeddyBear]

Monzon is lucky he wasn't in Pavliks ERA

[Dickagon]

none of them had any reason to. Hopkins only got a fight with DLH and bigger paydays by being the middleweight champ. staying in one division is fine but fighters have always wanted money and names bring money to the table. it isn't different now. Even Floyd and Pac jump around to get bigger fights and they're the two highest earning fighters

[blackbelt2003]

Gravy...it's an unfair comparison but a valid one.

Reason being than an Abner Mares type could not carve out a Bernard Hopkins-type career because he's not good enough, so he jumps around the weights collecting belts.

That was my point. True greatness is defined by legacy at one particular weight. The other weights are icing on the cake. Even Floyd had a dominant 130 reign before moving up (and by the time he's finished you may be able to add 147 dominance to that, too).

However, the new trend of bouncing around the weights (Mares, Donaire, Broner) seems to be more important than dominating in one division, which is why as soon as GGG gets a name at 160, we're already asking him to bounce up to 168, and then it will be 175 and suddenly he's gone too far, lost and what could have been a great reign and a spot as an ATG is down the pan because us fans are too fickle and not satisfied with a long, great, slow burning reign of dominance any more.



Black

[and the NEW]

(03-18-2015 11:12 PM)Fitz Wrote:  Maybe it's a 'great middleweight' thing to do. 3 of the greatest middleweights of all time owned a division without jumping around. Hagler, Monzon and Hopkins.

Perhaps. Then again, how many of them are ranked above (on most historians P4P lists) guys who fought the best across multiple divisions including the middleweight division (Henry Armstrong, Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard).

However, BHOP did move up afterwards and establish a legacy above middleweight.

---

(03-19-2015 04:23 AM)blackbelt2003 Wrote:  However, the new trend of bouncing around the weights (Mares, Donaire, Broner) seems to be more important than dominating in one division, which is why as soon as GGG gets a name at 160, we're already asking him to bounce up to 168, and then it will be 175 and suddenly he's gone too far, lost and what could have been a great reign and a spot as an ATG is down the pan because us fans are too fickle and not satisfied with a long, great, slow burning reign of dominance any more.

GGG is 33 this year. Sticking around and beating the likes of Lee, Quillin, Lemieux ain't gonna do nothing for him.....the same people who want him to keep 'cleaning out' a dead weed division will the be ones who say, but what has he done, he is overrated, he never fought an elite fighter.

[blackbelt2003]

I'll never say that about him. And whilst he's chasing money up at 168, the genuine money (Canelo) will snatch up the middleweight belts and claim greatness from him.

I don't understand why another five years beating up Quillin, Andy Lee, David Lemieux and anyone else is such a bad thing.

You all love Hopkins for doing it at middleweight and constantly now praise him for locking down the division whilst waiting for the big names. Why can't GGG be allowed to do the same?


Black

[Dickagon]

That kind of dominance is hard now, the names and fights aren't there anymore. But I think fighters are judged on their prime years more than their weight. And before the new divisions a lot of guys weren't even fighting in their best division, it's a money division like 147, 160 and heavyweight

[blackbelt2003]

I see how it can be difficult...but Hopkins is a shining example of how it can be done:

Lock down your title, take out everyone they put in front of you (this is where GGG is now), get all the belts, and then all the big names from lower down who go through your division HAVE to fight you.


Black

[the ollie reed fan club]

(03-19-2015 04:11 PM)blackbelt2003 Wrote:  I see how it can be difficult...but Hopkins is a shining example of how it can be done:

Lock down your title, take out everyone they put in front of you (this is where GGG is now), get all the belts, and then all the big names from lower down who go through your division HAVE to fight you.


Black

I agree with your line of thinking Black. the one other problem I have with Triple G moving up (and this may still play out even if he tries to cherry pick a fight) is that once guys goes up, especially over the age of 30 it becomes very difficult for them to go back down, no matter how professional and disciplined they are with their diet and regimen. Golovkin would not be a big guy at 168. To me his frame and physique are perfect for the division he is in, going up could well ruin that.

He is fighting for 7 figure paychecks now yeah? Do that 4 times a year and wait for the Golden Ticket to arrive as Black suggests and he will do just fine.

I wish his camp would stop talking about 168 because IMHO once he moves up there he will probably have to stay there.

[Dickagon]

All of the top guys at 147 would've fought in Hopkins era too. it's comparing different times. but all of the greats have consistently had big wins, sometimes they've to move around to get them. Great fighters get out of their comfort zone to be great.