Politics Unfiltered

[salvador]

Spyder,

I totally understand what you are saying and you are right that every single person is fundamentally responsible for themselves and every kid in America has a better chance at prosperity than they would have in any other country in the history of the world. And fuck them if they are going to blow that chance that so many have fought and died for. And fuck them twice for costing $30K-$60K a year to incarcerate and another $10K a year for public education for each of their out of wedlock children plus however much we are paying for various health and welfare programs. And a huge number of those kids will end up in the criminal justice system and be drags on the economy for their entire lives and they will have a bunch of kids out of wedlock too and so on and so on.

Aside from the violence, the cart just keeps getting heavier and there are fewer and fewer people pulling it.

I get it - especially so close to tax time.

My only point is that the problem (for whatever the causes) is growing and over time it's only going to become a bigger anchor around the productive people in society. Not only is it going to bankrupt us (as they will all get SS and medicare after paying virtually nothing in on top of everything else), but the percentage of the population that is angry and poor will just continue to grow and the likelihood of genuine social unrest on a mass scale increases.

More than anything, let's just hope that we'll never be able to vote with cell phones because that would change the entire political system in America: we could call it the Maxine Watersification of America.

By the way, that was a long video for the point you are making!

[Spyder]

I didn't have an edited version. But under the context, it's probably better left uncut.

The majority of the countries around the world have different communities living within them. Some get along peacefully, most don't. America is no different. There has been internal strife for our entire history. The contributors and doers have always won, and those that have sat back and let others do for them have always lost. This is no different. There will be a winner, and there will be a loser.

Whether we like the messenger or not, Donald Trump represents the group of people on the opposing side of Maxine Waters and her disciples. The conflict has already started, and the do-nothings are the ones that lit the match. When this is over, I don't think the conclusion will be to give them more. I think it will be a fight for them to be able to keep some of the scraps that they already have.

[the ollie reed fan club]

From the little I understand of the process it looks a little weak of Cruz and Kasich to enter into this rather informal alliance in order to trump Trump. Either you can beat him or you can't.

[Spyder]

That's my feeling as well, Ollie. These people have gone to unprecedented measures to try to stop him, and they can't do it. If they can't beat Trump, then how are they going to beat Hillary?

[the ollie reed fan club]

(04-26-2016 11:32 PM)Spyder Wrote:  That's my feeling as well, Ollie. These people have gone to unprecedented measures to try to stop him, and they can't do it. If they can't beat Trump, then how are they going to beat Hillary?

This could still work against them. Trump has run on a platform of being very much against 'the system' and if voters perceive that this is the system working to deprive him of his opportunity then it may well galvanize more voters to turn out for him.

Tonight's results were a big statement in favour of Trump. I just can't wait to see that wall

Interestingly Macedonia recently erected a barb wire fence (their version of a wall) in order to keep immigrants out and the world doesn't utter a peep. Trump plans to build a wall and the world screams racism. (From what I understand though Macedonia were not able to get Mexico to pay for it, so I'm not sure it was such a great deal, LOL.)

[TheTeddyBear]

Trump could get all the votes he wants. The people's vote doesn't matter anymore with all the delegates and super delegates they'll make sure he doesnt get in.

[Warlord]

(04-27-2016 05:18 AM)TheTeddyBear Wrote:  Trump could get all the votes he wants. The people's vote doesn't matter anymore with all the delegates and super delegates they'll make sure he doesnt get in.

Not singling Teddy out here, as this post is also for Ollie and/or anyone else curious about how/why the elections work the way they do.

Before I begin, I just have to remind everyone (and perhaps inform some who never knew before) that the United States is a Republic, not a direct democracy. A direct democracy doesn't exist anywhere in the world. Direct democracy means there are no elected officials anywhere; the citizens themselves vote on the issues.

As a republic, the people elect representatives (through the voting process) to represent them in government. I'm not talking down to anyone, but this is necessary for everyone to understand before we go any further. Now, onwards.

First point; Teddy's complaint is, unfortunately, a common complaint from voters who aren't familiar with the system to any real degree. Most probably think our system runs on the popular vote (or should) and that anything else is an evil, nefarious plan to to disenfranchise voters and/or keep angelic philanthropists like Mr. Trump out of office.

Teddy says the "delegates" and "super delegates" will make sure Trump doesn't get in. Firstly, it is exactly the opposite. It's the delegates that will get him in (assuming he wins enough of them.) That's number one.

Secondly, there is a huge difference between delegates and "super delegates" (of which there are none in the Republican party.)

So what is a delegate? A delegate is elected, by the voters, to represent them during an election. Is this wrong, evil, or unAmerican? Of course not. It's the way it has been done from the beginning.

In most states, delegates are bound to vote for whoever won the popular vote in their state. In a few states, like Colorado, voters don't vote directly for the candidate of their choice. The delegates themselves are free to choose the candidate that they prefer. Hold on now, don't start bitching yet. Yes, he's free to choose the candidate he wants, but it isn't that simple, and it isn't an evil nefarious plot to strip voters of their rights.

You see, in states like Colorado, the voters go to a caucus or other such meetings, and vote their delegates into office. The voice, and the will, of the people is still heard. They still get delegates in who'll vote the way the people want. And a bit of trivia, Colorado has been this way for over a hundred years. They tried switching to the popular vote, but actually got a lower turnout than they normally do, so they switched back to the way they used to do it.

(Actually, nearly every delegate has to get elected, one way or another, in the Republican party.)


Now, superdelegates (which only exist in the Democrat party) are a different story. Unlike traditional delegates, superdelegates (which don't exist in the Republican Party!!!!!!) are NOT elected to office. They are members of the DNC, or "party leaders" that could include member of Congress, or even heads of special interest groups.

As Howard Dean said (who is himself a superdelegate), "Super delegates don't 'represent people.' I'm not elected by anyone. I'll do what I think is right for the country."


So is Teddy right? Yes and no. Yes, Trump won't get in if he doesn't have the delegates. No, it isn't rigged. He either has the number or he doesn't.

The democrats are a different story.

---

Now, for some general questions/remarks that may need to be cleared up.


If no one has 1,237 delegates before the convention, they should just give it to whoever has the most!

Wrong. The U.S. is (correctly) a super majority. That means 50 + 1 (or more than 50% if that makes it easier.) Why was it set up this way?

Think back to a few months ago, when we had 10 candidates in the field running for the nomination (and extrapolate that to a general election as well). What if, say, Trump had 12% of the vote. And then imagine every other candidate fell below that. You'd end up with a nominee who only had the support of 12% of the voters throughout the country. Is that fair?

No. It isn't. Someone HAS to get a majority. That's how democracy works.


Okay then you logical asshole, why don't Cruz and Kasich get out of the race. Kasich is a douche running 4th behind a guy who quit months ago, and Cruz is nearly mathematically eliminated! Riddle me that, asswipe, 'cause I'm a stupid Trumpkin who doesn't know any better!

Again, the United States is a super majority. Trump has won only 39% of the delegates so far. For the mathematically challenged, that's 61% of the voting public who do not want Trump as their nominee.

Shall we just shaft the majority of the voters in our country and just hand the election over to a candidate who is preferred by a very vocal minority? No. Where is the justice in that?

We're not North Korea or China, where one dude is on the ballot and, unsurprisingly, pulls 100% of the votes cast. Elections require competition and choice.


Okay, okay, dipshit! I'm a retard Trumpkin who claims to love this country, but I think we should change ALL THE LAWS until they let Trump win! Fuck they way it's been done since this country's founding! No more delegates. No more electoral system. Let's go by the popular vote, 'cuz TRump has the most votes already! Gidderdone!

See my previous analysis. Run the idea of the popular vote to its logical conclusion. A popular vote has the potential to see a candidate win, even though he/she/it is nowhere near having the support of the majority of the voters. You just can't have a system like that in a democratic country.

As for the electoral system, again, it was designed so that smaller states don't get wiped out by bigger ones in a popular vote. California is the most populated state in the union, with nearly 40,000,000 humans or subhumans, most of who are complete and total idiots. In a popular vote, California could wipe out Utah, Kansas, Nevada, New Mexico, Nebraska, West Virginia, Idaho, Hawaii, Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Montana, Delaware, North and South Dakota, Alaska, Vermont, and Wyoming combined!

Now is that fair?


You're full of shit! Everything you said sounds like it makes sense, but it don't and I don't know why, I just know it don't 'cuz I'm a Trumpkin and I'm a stupid retard who voted based on emotions because I don't know shit about policy, am ignorant of the way the country works, and logic hurts my brain!!!!

You guys can feel free to correct me where I'm wrong, but that's my best shot at explaining this.

---

Explain unbound delegates, asshole!

If no one gets the majority (as will likely be the case for Republicans this year), then we go to an open convention. This means some delegates will become "unbound."


What does that mean, shithead!!!!

A bound delegate is someone that must vote for the candidate that won either the majority of a state's popular vote, or won enough to receive some (though not all or most) of that state's delegates. They have no choice on the matter. They have to vote for who they have to vote. Period.

If it gets to an open convention (meaning no one won the majority on the first ballot), then some of those delegates become unbound, which means they can vote for another candidate.


AAAAHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I knew it, fuckface! I fucking knew it! How is that democratic, if they vote for whoever the want to vote for! Fucking shithead!

Well, as I said, these delegates are voted into office the same as any other elected representative. The reason they become unbound on a second, third, fourth, fifth ballot, etc... is because if every delegate could only vote for the candidate they were initially assigned in perpetuity, no one could ever get a majority. Ever. We'd come out with the same result on every ballot. Forever.

That's why delegates become unbound. It's not perfect, but it's better than any other system on the planet.

[the ollie reed fan club]

Still doesn't really answer my question as to why Cruz and Kasich have to cozy up. If Cruz really believes he can win more delegates than Trump then there should be no need tor this tacit deal that they have put in place. Either you can beat him under your own steam or you can't. What is happening right now is highly tactical and it's that type of maneuvering that has turned many voters off.

[Warlord]

I agree it is a tactical move, and think it was a terrible decision to be honest. I think it will only hurt, not help, the Cruz campaign.

But Cruz's endgame is no longer to get to 1,237. It's to prevent Trump from getting to 1,237. If he can do that, he'll win the nomination.

Before any tard comes on here talking about how unAmerican that is, please remember that Lincoln won on the third ballot of an open convention. Ford won at an open convention as well. Reagan fought his ass off to try and win at an open convention.

The problem with Trump and his little Trumpkins is that they're completely ignorant knobs who don't have a clue about the history of this great country.

[Warlord]

(04-24-2016 11:52 PM)the ollie reed fan club Wrote:  Credit to Warlord for calling Cruz ridiculously early.

I didn't just call Cruz, I called the ticket.

(08-08-2015 03:41 PM)Warlord Wrote:  I like Trump for what he is, and I can't stand the way the Republican establishment is treating him, but... he will never win the nomination, nor should he.

(08-25-2015 10:14 AM)Warlord Wrote:  Once the Trump ride is over (if it ever ends) Ted Cruz will ascend, and he'll murder whatever piece of meat the Socialists throw at him on the debate stage.

(08-25-2015 04:03 PM)Warlord Wrote:  Bullshit. Cruz will be the nominee. Kasich is too far left to get any real support.

(09-18-2015 05:16 PM)Warlord Wrote:  As for Carly, if she gets the nominee, great. She'll rip Clinton apart. If she doesn't, she's definitely the VP. There ain't a man running the race that's dumb enough not to ride that horse.

I've been saying it for ages, the ticket will be Cruz/Fiorina.

Today, Wednesday, April the 27th, in the 2,016th year of our lord, at 4:00pm, Ted Cruz named Carly Fiorina as his VP pick. I called it on September 18th, 2015. How's that for a crystal ball?

Feel free to bump this post for me when this thing gets settled on the second ballet of the open convention that will take place just under two months from now, on July 18-21 in Cleveland, Ohio.