The definition of "pound for pound" champion

[Byrd Man]

I was thinking about this earlier after reading about Manny first suggesting the 150lb weight for a clash with Martinez, prior to the new 147lbs request.

I always viewed the whole "pound for pound" title as basically meaning irregardless of weight, this guy is the best. He can take on anyone, big or small and come out victorious.

And yet that's never what happens. It's always bringing someone up or down, or you coming up or down to fight someone, and it's almost always on one fighter's terms rather than being equal.

And I realize that there are instances that that cannot work, such as Sergio vs. Vitali or something. However maybe I've just always had the wrong idea about what pound for pound meant.

What does that title mean to you guy? Not whether you think it means anything in the state of boxing today, but when someone says that they are the pound for pound champion, what does that bring to mind for you? As in what SHOULD it mean to you?

[Romulus9]

[Big Slim]

Romulus9 Wrote:

Haha that's awesome. This really could be the first ever

/thread in BU history.

[Dickagon]

pound for pound is about taking fighters in different divisions and leveling the playing field to see who's the best fighter. like if i wanted to compare SRR to Wlad Klitschko Robinson would be a slightly bigger than average HW[he's bigger than average compared to other MWs in his day], fast hands, good ability to recover and ATG skills. doing Wlad to SRR would have Wlad as a big MW with a questionable chin, cautious fighter and uses a lot of jabs and straight rights. either way my money is on Robinson.

[Byrd Man]

actually no. I'm not asking for who you think is THE best fighter of all time, I'm asking what that title of "pound for pound champion" means to you? Is it a collaboration of skills, is it the way you fight, is it the level of competition, is it longevity, is it the ability to fight people much bigger than you, what?

There doesn't seem to be any set criteria. Much like in hip hop with the ridiculous "top 5 dead or alive" lists which are impossible because one rapper may be better than another in one category but much inferior in another.

[Byrd Man]

gravytrain Wrote:pound for pound is about taking fighters in different divisions and leveling the playing field to see who's the best fighter. like if i wanted to compare SRR to Wlad Klitschko Robinson would be a slightly bigger than average HW[he's bigger than average compared to other MWs in his day], fast hands, good ability to recover and ATG skills. doing Wlad to SRR would have Wlad as a big MW with a questionable chin, cautious fighter and uses a lot of jabs and straight rights. either way my money is on Robinson.

cool. I can dig it.

[Spyder]

If a picture is worth a thousand words...Romulus said a mouthful!



That picture defines everything that P4P means, not just who we think is the G.O.A.T.

[Dickagon]

Spyder Wrote:If a picture is worth a thousand words...Romulus said a mouthful!



That picture defines everything that P4P means, not just who we think is the G.O.A.T.

i can't remember whether it's with Turpin or LaMotta that Robinson lost to them, took a tune up fight and avenged the loss all in under a month. that's one of the things i always think about when someone tries to knock Robinson out of the #1 spot

[Romulus9]

Spyder Wrote:If a picture is worth a thousand words...Romulus said a mouthful!



That picture defines everything that P4P means, not just who we think is the G.O.A.T.

EXACTLY my point.

[Method]

Byrd Man Wrote:I was thinking about this earlier after reading about Manny first suggesting the 150lb weight for a clash with Martinez, prior to the new 147lbs request.

I always viewed the whole "pound for pound" title as basically meaning irregardless of weight, this guy is the best. He can take on anyone, big or small and come out victorious.

And yet that's never what happens. It's always bringing someone up or down, or you coming up or down to fight someone, and it's almost always on one fighter's terms rather than being equal.

And I realize that there are instances that that cannot work, such as Sergio vs. Vitali or something. However maybe I've just always had the wrong idea about what pound for pound meant.

What does that title mean to you guy? Not whether you think it means anything in the state of boxing today, but when someone says that they are the pound for pound champion, what does that bring to mind for you? As in what SHOULD it mean to you?

I know the definition of P4P is subject to individual interpretation.

For me, it is those that best embody all that encompasses the skills of the sweet science. I know that's not the general consensus, but for me, that's what it is. A great mastery of the fundamentals, with the right mixture of athleticism, natural talent. Things like footwork, feints, defense, punch technique, ability to adapt on the fly - bring a plan A, B, C or D.

I'm really not a fanatic of Many Paq, but I watch the little fucker fight because he brings it, but I never really consider him atop the P4P list, because I see technical flaws in his game, but they're really masked by that little fucker's speed/quickness, power. That said, I would never be critical of guy's that have him at #1 or #2, or whatever.

For me, I have guys like Mayweather, Hopkins among the tops, because they are so fucking technically sound...but I have Manny up there too. I really don't care at all for the "heel" that Mayweather portrays himself to be, but that little SOB can fight.

James Toney is a skilled cat too...but he's too fucking fat anymore to do certain things that would maker him the total package (and I don't like going in on James because that's my boy Warlord's guy, and I don't wanna be on the wrong side of one of Warlord's verbal darts). Did anyone see the recent footage of James doing the pad work w Buddy? I mean, damn, could James have been any more lead-footed? Am I making a bigger deal of this than it appeared? or did you guys notice it too?

Anyway, Hard not to have Manny among the tops P4P because he keeps whipping ass. Nobody will ever convince me of a god damn thing by trying to sell this "Manny's fighting Floyd's leftovers". That argument is easily diffused and anyone of any sort of intelligence would never try and take that argument up.

The one thing I give Paq is that he literally beat Shane Mosley into running for 9 rounds. Hard to look good when your opponent goes into survival mode as hard as Shane did. I swear the only more pathetic survival mode I've seen was Hakkar vs. Hopkins, but as I type this, I'm thinking, "You know what, as bad as Hakkar ran/tried to survive, at least he realized it in the mid rounds and finally stood there and took the TKO. Shane went in to survival mode in the 3rd, and he ran the rest of the fight.

I really have enjoyed Mayeather's last two fights. Let me add the caveat that I HATED how Mayweather/Ortiz ended. I don't blame Floyd, but as someone who was rerally looking forward to watching a good fight, etc, I wish he could have showed some restraint and taken it out on Ortiz for the rest of the fight, but I absolutely understand why he did what he did. I would have dont it too. He was pissed. What I was getting to is that I have enjoyed how Floyd has stood in the pocket and whuped fucking ass. That takes skill. He did it w Mosley and he was doing it w Ortiz. I liked how Ortiz was getting down and dirty...but he fucked it up. While it looked like Mayweather was laying a clinical beatdown that would have eventually had Ortiz ground down to hamburger meat, I can't help but notice that Ortiz did seem to be getting warmed to the task at hand somewhat, and was having his best success right before the fiasco.

I understand this post has gotten tangential to the original topic.

In conjunction with my original points about what P4P means to me, that's why I can't for the life of me understand how people have guys like Martinez, Ward, for example, so high on the P4P list. Ward may be the goods, but he really hasn't the resume yet to be in the top 5. While Martinez might have a few names on his rezzy, his style/technique is horrible for me. That cocky, hands down at his side shit...I dunno...I dont hate the guy, but to have him in the top 3-4 on the P4P? Not on my list.

But to each his own. We all have different things about the sport that we appreciate.