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***Method*** · 02-23-2013, 05:52 PM

damarvelous1 Wrote:I see no reason why Ward needs to travel out of the country to fight 2 guys he already beat clear as day. If he wants to do it for financial reasons then so be it.

Ward should retire Martinez!

Your lips to god's ears. Martinez is GARBAGE!

***lloyd mayflower*** · 02-24-2013, 10:23 AM

damarvelous1 Wrote:
lloyd mayflower Wrote:
damarvelous1 Wrote:I see no reason why Ward needs to travel out of the country to fight 2 guys he already beat clear as day. If he wants to do it for financial reasons then so be it.

Ward should retire Martinez!
No reason to travel out the country fir the number two guy, yet you think a fight against a middleweight who is essentially a blown up 154 is ok?
Yes it is absolutely OK!

I mean according to many, Martinez is top 5 P4P! He been fighting a 160 For his last 7 fights so he should be a full blown Middleweight now, right? I mean he does walk around at 180+. Ward cleaned out his division and beat the number 1 guy at 175. There's nothing else there... He should just focus on fighting the best now! According to many, Martinez is one of the best! No different then Mayweather fighting at 154 or Marquez fighting at 147. If not Martinez, then maybe Chavez Jr!

I dont get the logic at all. Martinez is just barely big enough for middle. He has no business at 168 and Ward would get no kudos for fighting him. Just because many consider Sergio top 5, that doesnt mean that he automatically should be capable of moving up. Ability to move up in weight has nothing to do with p4p rankings.

JD · 02-24-2013, 10:30 AM

In fairness, Martinez is already 2 classes up from where he started.

***damarvelous1*** · 02-24-2013, 10:53 AM

And Floyd fought across 5 divisions and Manny fought across 8 divisions, Marquez fought across 6 divisions, etc...

Martinez is the King of the middleweight and Ward is the king of Super Middleweight. There 1 division apart. Why not make it happen?

Let's be honest... the only people who don't want to see this fight are Martinez fans. They rather see him fight smaller opponents like Manny or Mayweather? LOL.

The fight won't happen anyways so we're just splitting hairs.

Ward cleaned out his division and beat the #1 Light Heavy... There's a lot of talent at 160. Maybe one of those guys will move up!

***lloyd mayflower*** · 02-24-2013, 11:10 AM

damarvelous1 Wrote:And Floyd fought across 5 divisions and Manny fought across 8 divisions, Marquez fought across 6 divisions, etc...

Martinez is the King of the middleweight and Ward is the king of Super Middleweight. There 1 division apart. Why not make it happen?

Let's be honest... the only people who don't want to see this fight are Martinez fans. They rather see him fight smaller opponents like Manny or Mayweather? LOL.

The fight won't happen anyways so we're just splitting hairs.

Ward cleaned out his division and beat the #1 Light Heavy... There's a lot of talent at 160. Maybe one of those guys will move up!

I like to see a fighter move up sometimes, but Martinez is at the right division, iv no interest in seeing him at nearly forty years old pile on beef just to get a fight with Ward.

***damarvelous1*** · 02-24-2013, 11:29 AM

lloyd mayflower Wrote:
damarvelous1 Wrote:And Floyd fought across 5 divisions and Manny fought across 8 divisions, Marquez fought across 6 divisions, etc...

Martinez is the King of the middleweight and Ward is the king of Super Middleweight. There 1 division apart. Why not make it happen?

Let's be honest... the only people who don't want to see this fight are Martinez fans. They rather see him fight smaller opponents like Manny or Mayweather? LOL.

The fight won't happen anyways so we're just splitting hairs.

Ward cleaned out his division and beat the #1 Light Heavy... There's a lot of talent at 160. Maybe one of those guys will move up!
I like to see a fighter move up sometimes, but Martinez is at the right division, iv no interest in seeing him at nearly forty years old pile on beef just to get a fight with Ward.

But that's what I'm talking about... What beef will he be piling on? He walks around as a cruiser weight! He weighs 170 pounds on fight night... lol.

Im fine with Martinez staying at Middleweight and fighting the likes of Golovkin and Quillen... All I'm saying is I would Like to see Ward-Martinez... And I don't buy that bullshit size excuse!

JD · 02-24-2013, 12:47 PM

damarvelous1 Wrote:And Floyd fought across 5 divisions and Manny fought across 8 divisions, Marquez fought across 6 divisions, etc...

Martinez is the King of the middleweight and Ward is the king of Super Middleweight. There 1 division apart. Why not make it happen?

Let's be honest... the only people who don't want to see this fight are Martinez fans. They rather see him fight smaller opponents like Manny or Mayweather? LOL.

The fight won't happen anyways so we're just splitting hairs.

Ward cleaned out his division and beat the #1 Light Heavy... There's a lot of talent at 160. Maybe one of those guys will move up!

I'm not really sure what Floyd has to do with this, but I guess we can bring him into the discussion.

Martinez started at welter and said he can't move any higher than 160, so there isn't much else to it. It's not like that guy is entering the ring bigger than his opponents, if anything it's the complete opposite. If he did move up to 168 he would get beaten...badly by the likes of Ward or Froch for that matter and I tend to think he knows that.

If Ward said he was willing to fight Martinez at 160 then I think you might have a point as it relates to Floyd since you brought him up...but he hasn't, because in fairness he probably won't be at 168 much longer either. Going back to Martinez and Floyd fighting, I think the reason people wanted to see that was because Martinez was willing to fight Floyd at a weight he was fighting at (154), or even lower (151). I haven't see any type of offer from Ward that is similar unless I missed it...which wouldn't surprise me if I did, I feel like I have been out of the loop.

Ultimately I think fans get excited by the better fighter moving up to fight a new challenge at higher weight...whereas the idea of the inferior fighter moving up to fight someone who does everything better and is bigger, doesn't really have the same appeal.

At this point there is no one from middle to light heavy that can beat Ward...in fact, you may not have anyone that can be all that competitive with Ward in that range. The only one who I think would actually give it a go from 160 is Golovkin, and he would lose...by a lot.

***and the NEW*** · 02-25-2013, 04:55 AM

damarvelous1 Wrote:And Floyd fought across 5 divisions and Manny fought across 8 divisions, Marquez fought across 6 divisions, etc...

Martinez is the King of the middleweight and Ward is the king of Super Middleweight. There 1 division apart. Why not make it happen?

Let's be honest... the only people who don't want to see this fight are Martinez fans. They rather see him fight smaller opponents like Manny or Mayweather? LOL.

I'm a big believer in not moving to a weight where you are out of your depth. You see a fighter at a certain weight, where he just doesn't look big enough to hurt guys any bigger than that. They just become powder puff punchers if they try to go any higher. I think that is 160 for Martinez. Any higher, he just gets eaten up. He is no big middle.

I'd rather see him face Alvarez, Trout, Golovkin, Geale or Pirog rather than Floyd, Pacquiao (neither of these two belong at 154 let alone 160) or Ward.

***Fitz*** · 02-25-2013, 05:11 AM

The difference between Martinez and Floyd is that Martinez has said that 168 is too much for him, and he is a small 160 fighter as it is.
Floyd has fought at 154 several times, and is a champion at 154. He is just being selective on who he wants to fight at 154. I would treat Martinez the same way if he were to move up to 168 a couple of times, pick up a cheap strap.
That would be like Martinez going to 168 to beat Abraham and another weaker 168 fighter but when the best guy calls him out, has selective hearing.
Also like JD said, the comparison would be for Ward to move down to 160 to fight Martinez, as Martinez vs Floyd was always asked to be at 154 with Martinez moving down.

***and the NEW*** · 02-25-2013, 05:23 AM

Fitz Wrote:The difference between Martinez and Floyd is that Martinez has said that 168 is too much for him, and he is a small 160 fighter as it is.
Floyd has fought at 154 several times, and is a champion at 154. He is just being selective on who he wants to fight at 154. I would treat Martinez the same way if he were to move up to 168 a couple of times, pick up a cheap strap.
That would be like Martinez going to 168 to beat Abraham and another weaker 168 fighter but when the best guy calls him out, has selective hearing.
Also like JD said, the comparison would be for Ward to move down to 160 to fight Martinez, as Martinez vs Floyd was always asked to be at 154 with Martinez moving down.

He hasn't fought there several times, his fought there twice. Once against Cotto (a small 154lber as we found out against Trout, and once against Oscar, never a great 154lber and Floyd looked small even then). Floyd barely broke 150lbs both times, as close to welter as a jr middle.

I can see your points, obviously. But I'm simply stating Floyd doesn't belong in the ring with legit 154lbers (Martinez, Trout or Alvarez), just as Martinez doesn't belong in there with Froch, Kessler or Ward (legit 168lbers), regardless of whether or not Floyd is adding his alphabet soup jr middle title to his 'multiple weight division championships'.