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***SmartyBeardo*** · 11-09-2011, 09:42 AM

EAlbian Wrote:
SmartyBeardo Wrote:
EAlbian Wrote:
kidbazooka1 Wrote:
Gandalf The Black Wrote:
kidbazooka1 Wrote:
Gandalf The Black Wrote:Anyone willing to best against Kirkland VS Cotto or Margarito, I will take those bets!!!! Spyder will float me the dough since I'm new.
Your on.

I'll take Cotto or Marg all day.
Who do you have for Marquez or Pac-Man?????
Pacqiuao.

I like JMM but the weight and age will make a huge difference this time around.

I really don't see how anyone would think Kirkland will beat Cotto or Marg sh*t just a before the fight ppl were calling him a bum now all of a sudden he's one of the best at 154.

Kirkland still has a china chin w/ no defense whatsoever and is as one diminsional as they come. If a fighter the level of Cotto touches him he will crumble easly. It took Kirkland 6 freakin rds to stop a dead man after the 1st rd in Angulo.

No way Kirkland beats Cotto or Marg NO WAY IN HEll!! i'll put serious $$$$$ on that too.
Cotto hates pressure and Margarito cant fight going backwards. There's your reasons. The fights wont get made but I'd be willing to bet on those.

Mayorga's chopping shots were getting to cotto and Kirkland is a huge Jr MW. He swarms Cotto and If Cotto can't catch him coming in he crumbles and quits.

Margarito is tall and skinny and has a high center of gravity, Mosley was able to out wrestle him on the inside. I see Kirkland being able to do the same thing. Call me crazy but I like those bets right now.

Cotto and Margarito dont have the right tools imo to beat Kirkland

I think a taller fighter who can throw straight punches and keep him at bay with the jab and straight is the right guy to do it.

BTW i bet Kirkland over Angulo and was always high on him. I don't think he's unbeatable but against the right opponents he will win.
Angulo should have won that fight. He just utterly fucked it off, similar to that welter who spent himself against Soto Karass, only worse.

What's interesting about Kirkland is that he gets stunned and knocked down easily but he snaps out of it quick. Even against that Japanese dude he seemed like he could have kept going. I don't blame the ref for stopping it but I don't think Kirkland was done in that fight. In that way he reminds me of Smokin' Joe (may he RIP).
Beardo i think you're giving Anculo too much credit. the guy was never a world beater, i mean he lost to Cintron(don't make me pull out the old threads i had about my Cintron hate). Kirkland had more places to go than Angulo and it showed in the fight. Kirkland was actually a pretty good boxer in his amateur days and he's black(oh yea i said it). Kirkland is not the greatest boxer but if you don't catch him coming in you're going to go through a form of hell because the guy is going to be all over you. Angulo like many other Mexican fighters can only do one thing and the moment he stepped backwards he lost the fight

I'm not giving Angulo shit for credit. But that doesn't change the fact that he should have won that fight. He lost his composure. If he had not gone completely crazy after the KD and picked the shots to keep Kirkland hurt, game over. Credit? He's a fucking dumb ass, but he still could have won that fight.

Any solid boxer with a good chin and ok pop can put Kirkland away.

***EAlbian*** · 11-09-2011, 12:27 PM

SmartyBeardo Wrote:
EAlbian Wrote:
SmartyBeardo Wrote:
EAlbian Wrote:
kidbazooka1 Wrote:
Gandalf The Black Wrote:
kidbazooka1 Wrote:
Gandalf The Black Wrote:Anyone willing to best against Kirkland VS Cotto or Margarito, I will take those bets!!!! Spyder will float me the dough since I'm new.
Your on.

I'll take Cotto or Marg all day.
Who do you have for Marquez or Pac-Man?????
Pacqiuao.

I like JMM but the weight and age will make a huge difference this time around.

I really don't see how anyone would think Kirkland will beat Cotto or Marg sh*t just a before the fight ppl were calling him a bum now all of a sudden he's one of the best at 154.

Kirkland still has a china chin w/ no defense whatsoever and is as one diminsional as they come. If a fighter the level of Cotto touches him he will crumble easly. It took Kirkland 6 freakin rds to stop a dead man after the 1st rd in Angulo.

No way Kirkland beats Cotto or Marg NO WAY IN HEll!! i'll put serious $$$$$ on that too.
Cotto hates pressure and Margarito cant fight going backwards. There's your reasons. The fights wont get made but I'd be willing to bet on those.

Mayorga's chopping shots were getting to cotto and Kirkland is a huge Jr MW. He swarms Cotto and If Cotto can't catch him coming in he crumbles and quits.

Margarito is tall and skinny and has a high center of gravity, Mosley was able to out wrestle him on the inside. I see Kirkland being able to do the same thing. Call me crazy but I like those bets right now.

Cotto and Margarito dont have the right tools imo to beat Kirkland

I think a taller fighter who can throw straight punches and keep him at bay with the jab and straight is the right guy to do it.

BTW i bet Kirkland over Angulo and was always high on him. I don't think he's unbeatable but against the right opponents he will win.
Angulo should have won that fight. He just utterly fucked it off, similar to that welter who spent himself against Soto Karass, only worse.

What's interesting about Kirkland is that he gets stunned and knocked down easily but he snaps out of it quick. Even against that Japanese dude he seemed like he could have kept going. I don't blame the ref for stopping it but I don't think Kirkland was done in that fight. In that way he reminds me of Smokin' Joe (may he RIP).
Beardo i think you're giving Anculo too much credit. the guy was never a world beater, i mean he lost to Cintron(don't make me pull out the old threads i had about my Cintron hate). Kirkland had more places to go than Angulo and it showed in the fight. Kirkland was actually a pretty good boxer in his amateur days and he's black(oh yea i said it). Kirkland is not the greatest boxer but if you don't catch him coming in you're going to go through a form of hell because the guy is going to be all over you. Angulo like many other Mexican fighters can only do one thing and the moment he stepped backwards he lost the fight
I'm not giving Angulo shit for credit. But that doesn't change the fact that he should have won that fight. He lost his composure. If he had not gone completely crazy after the KD and picked the shots to keep Kirkland hurt, game over. Credit? He's a fucking dumb ass, but he still could have won that fight.

Any solid boxer with a good chin and ok pop can put Kirkland away.

should have? he didn't, i guess you can say that about any fight then. Could he have, yes. It was a pick'em fight for me and i felt Kirkland had the tools to do it.

So Bazooka, besides Cotto and Margs who else beats Kirkland at Jr MW?

I think Martinez does but he's the MW champion.
Lara might but he went even with Molina who I think Kirkland is better than.
Alvarez? Ginger isn't ready yet.
K9, I'll take that bet any day.
Williams? maybe, but I don't see it happening.
Wolak? sign me up for that fight
Vanes blows.
Molina? good fight
Andrade? don't think he's ready and I'm not all that interested in watching him run
I haven't seen enough of Trout to speak on him.

he did beat up Brandon Vera pretty good who Lee couldnt get rid of though and he did just knock off the consensus #2 Jr MW in the world.

Kirkland hurt Angulo and picked his shots when he needed to, he boxed when he needed to. If matched with the right opponents he will be very successful at Jr MW. I'd like to see him in there with a name like Mosley to spark interest and put a name on his record or pick up a belt against K9 and then fight Berto or Ortiz who I think will move up. By that time Canelo should be ready for one of those guys because I think Berto and Ortiz are live opponents against Kirkland.

I don't think Margarito or Cotto are surefire picks against Kirkland and neither will Arum so don't expect to see those fights

***SmartyBeardo*** · 11-09-2011, 12:43 PM

EAlbian Wrote:
SmartyBeardo Wrote:
EAlbian Wrote:
SmartyBeardo Wrote:
EAlbian Wrote:
kidbazooka1 Wrote:
Gandalf The Black Wrote:
kidbazooka1 Wrote:
Gandalf The Black Wrote:Anyone willing to best against Kirkland VS Cotto or Margarito, I will take those bets!!!! Spyder will float me the dough since I'm new.
Your on.

I'll take Cotto or Marg all day.
Who do you have for Marquez or Pac-Man?????
Pacqiuao.

I like JMM but the weight and age will make a huge difference this time around.

I really don't see how anyone would think Kirkland will beat Cotto or Marg sh*t just a before the fight ppl were calling him a bum now all of a sudden he's one of the best at 154.

Kirkland still has a china chin w/ no defense whatsoever and is as one diminsional as they come. If a fighter the level of Cotto touches him he will crumble easly. It took Kirkland 6 freakin rds to stop a dead man after the 1st rd in Angulo.

No way Kirkland beats Cotto or Marg NO WAY IN HEll!! i'll put serious $$$$$ on that too.
Cotto hates pressure and Margarito cant fight going backwards. There's your reasons. The fights wont get made but I'd be willing to bet on those.

Mayorga's chopping shots were getting to cotto and Kirkland is a huge Jr MW. He swarms Cotto and If Cotto can't catch him coming in he crumbles and quits.

Margarito is tall and skinny and has a high center of gravity, Mosley was able to out wrestle him on the inside. I see Kirkland being able to do the same thing. Call me crazy but I like those bets right now.

Cotto and Margarito dont have the right tools imo to beat Kirkland

I think a taller fighter who can throw straight punches and keep him at bay with the jab and straight is the right guy to do it.

BTW i bet Kirkland over Angulo and was always high on him. I don't think he's unbeatable but against the right opponents he will win.
Angulo should have won that fight. He just utterly fucked it off, similar to that welter who spent himself against Soto Karass, only worse.

What's interesting about Kirkland is that he gets stunned and knocked down easily but he snaps out of it quick. Even against that Japanese dude he seemed like he could have kept going. I don't blame the ref for stopping it but I don't think Kirkland was done in that fight. In that way he reminds me of Smokin' Joe (may he RIP).
Beardo i think you're giving Anculo too much credit. the guy was never a world beater, i mean he lost to Cintron(don't make me pull out the old threads i had about my Cintron hate). Kirkland had more places to go than Angulo and it showed in the fight. Kirkland was actually a pretty good boxer in his amateur days and he's black(oh yea i said it). Kirkland is not the greatest boxer but if you don't catch him coming in you're going to go through a form of hell because the guy is going to be all over you. Angulo like many other Mexican fighters can only do one thing and the moment he stepped backwards he lost the fight
I'm not giving Angulo shit for credit. But that doesn't change the fact that he should have won that fight. He lost his composure. If he had not gone completely crazy after the KD and picked the shots to keep Kirkland hurt, game over. Credit? He's a fucking dumb ass, but he still could have won that fight.

Any solid boxer with a good chin and ok pop can put Kirkland away.
should have? he didn't, i guess you can say that about any fight then. Could he have, yes. It was a pick'em fight for me and i felt Kirkland had the tools to do it.

So Bazooka, besides Cotto and Margs who else beats Kirkland at Jr MW?

I think Martinez does but he's the MW champion.
Lara might but he went even with Molina who I think Kirkland is better than.
Alvarez? Ginger isn't ready yet.
K9, I'll take that bet any day.
Williams? maybe, but I don't see it happening.
Wolak? sign me up for that fight
Vanes blows.
Molina? good fight
Andrade? don't think he's ready and I'm not all that interested in watching him run
I haven't seen enough of Trout to speak on him.

he did beat up Brandon Vera pretty good who Lee couldnt get rid of though and he did just knock off the consensus #2 Jr MW in the world.

Kirkland hurt Angulo and picked his shots when he needed to, he boxed when he needed to. If matched with the right opponents he will be very successful at Jr MW. I'd like to see him in there with a name like Mosley to spark interest and put a name on his record or pick up a belt against K9 and then fight Berto or Ortiz who I think will move up. By that time Canelo should be ready for one of those guys because I think Berto and Ortiz are live opponents against Kirkland.

I don't think Margarito or Cotto are surefire picks against Kirkland and neither will Arum so don't expect to see those fights

Hey, I like Kirkland's style. What's not the like?

I'd love to see PWill v Kirkland. I think PWill probably KOs him but it could go either way.

I also think Lara defeats him.

***EAlbian*** · 11-09-2011, 12:48 PM

yea i tend to agree with you on Lara. he definitely has the style and tools to do it, If i were GBP i would be looking to move him up to 160 though and look for a Martinez bout. GBP has a commodity right now with Kirkland, he can be very profitable for them and HBO.

Lara may have the skills needed to beat Martinez and imo it would be nice for GBP to have a lock on the JR MW and MW divisions, there are a lot of options for them right now with their stable.

***kidbazooka1*** · 11-09-2011, 11:20 PM

EAlbian Wrote:
SmartyBeardo Wrote:
EAlbian Wrote:
SmartyBeardo Wrote:
EAlbian Wrote:
kidbazooka1 Wrote:
Gandalf The Black Wrote:
kidbazooka1 Wrote:
Gandalf The Black Wrote:Anyone willing to best against Kirkland VS Cotto or Margarito, I will take those bets!!!! Spyder will float me the dough since I'm new.
Your on.

I'll take Cotto or Marg all day.
Who do you have for Marquez or Pac-Man?????
Pacqiuao.

I like JMM but the weight and age will make a huge difference this time around.

I really don't see how anyone would think Kirkland will beat Cotto or Marg sh*t just a before the fight ppl were calling him a bum now all of a sudden he's one of the best at 154.

Kirkland still has a china chin w/ no defense whatsoever and is as one diminsional as they come. If a fighter the level of Cotto touches him he will crumble easly. It took Kirkland 6 freakin rds to stop a dead man after the 1st rd in Angulo.

No way Kirkland beats Cotto or Marg NO WAY IN HEll!! i'll put serious $$$$$ on that too.
Cotto hates pressure and Margarito cant fight going backwards. There's your reasons. The fights wont get made but I'd be willing to bet on those.

Mayorga's chopping shots were getting to cotto and Kirkland is a huge Jr MW. He swarms Cotto and If Cotto can't catch him coming in he crumbles and quits.

Margarito is tall and skinny and has a high center of gravity, Mosley was able to out wrestle him on the inside. I see Kirkland being able to do the same thing. Call me crazy but I like those bets right now.

Cotto and Margarito dont have the right tools imo to beat Kirkland

I think a taller fighter who can throw straight punches and keep him at bay with the jab and straight is the right guy to do it.

BTW i bet Kirkland over Angulo and was always high on him. I don't think he's unbeatable but against the right opponents he will win.
Angulo should have won that fight. He just utterly fucked it off, similar to that welter who spent himself against Soto Karass, only worse.

What's interesting about Kirkland is that he gets stunned and knocked down easily but he snaps out of it quick. Even against that Japanese dude he seemed like he could have kept going. I don't blame the ref for stopping it but I don't think Kirkland was done in that fight. In that way he reminds me of Smokin' Joe (may he RIP).
Beardo i think you're giving Anculo too much credit. the guy was never a world beater, i mean he lost to Cintron(don't make me pull out the old threads i had about my Cintron hate). Kirkland had more places to go than Angulo and it showed in the fight. Kirkland was actually a pretty good boxer in his amateur days and he's black(oh yea i said it). Kirkland is not the greatest boxer but if you don't catch him coming in you're going to go through a form of hell because the guy is going to be all over you. Angulo like many other Mexican fighters can only do one thing and the moment he stepped backwards he lost the fight
I'm not giving Angulo shit for credit. But that doesn't change the fact that he should have won that fight. He lost his composure. If he had not gone completely crazy after the KD and picked the shots to keep Kirkland hurt, game over. Credit? He's a fucking dumb ass, but he still could have won that fight.

Any solid boxer with a good chin and ok pop can put Kirkland away.
should have? he didn't, i guess you can say that about any fight then. Could he have, yes. It was a pick'em fight for me and i felt Kirkland had the tools to do it.

So Bazooka, besides Cotto and Margs who else beats Kirkland at Jr MW?

I think Martinez does but he's the MW champion.
Lara might but he went even with Molina who I think Kirkland is better than.
Alvarez? Ginger isn't ready yet.
K9, I'll take that bet any day.
Williams? maybe, but I don't see it happening.
Wolak? sign me up for that fight
Vanes blows.
Molina? good fight
Andrade? don't think he's ready and I'm not all that interested in watching him run
I haven't seen enough of Trout to speak on him.

he did beat up Brandon Vera pretty good who Lee couldnt get rid of though and he did just knock off the consensus #2 Jr MW in the world.

Kirkland hurt Angulo and picked his shots when he needed to, he boxed when he needed to. If matched with the right opponents he will be very successful at Jr MW. I'd like to see him in there with a name like Mosley to spark interest and put a name on his record or pick up a belt against K9 and then fight Berto or Ortiz who I think will move up. By that time Canelo should be ready for one of those guys because I think Berto and Ortiz are live opponents against Kirkland.

I don't think Margarito or Cotto are surefire picks against Kirkland and neither will Arum so don't expect to see those fights

You just named most of the guys that would whoop him and i would put good money on that.

Williams-Beats him all day.

Lara-stops him in a good fight

Canelo -despite being so young is much more skilled than Angulo, Canelo beats him without a doubt in my mind.

Martinez- like you said is a MW but he would kill Kirkland and it won't even be funny.

Angulo-if remtached would beat him. Angulo said he wants Kirkland righ away lets hope GBP puts that together asap.

As for the rest of the guys you named i thing Kirkland would beat them but i wouldn't bet on it though.

***Lil-Lightsout*** · 11-10-2011, 01:01 AM

So I train a few guys on the side at my house. Well this one dude, who is 26, watched this fight and could not get over how Angulo punched himself out in one round. He thinks he did not train for the fight and was in terrible shape, and that is why he lost. Now I know what it is like to punch yourself out, only as an amateur though who fought a measly four rounds, not elite type fighters who train to go 12 rounds.

So it got me thinking...for someone who supposedly trained for 12 hard rounds, is it possible to blow your load in less than one round??? Would have Angulo ever got a second wind? Did he under-train? I mean I could cite dozens of fights and fighters who just went guns blazing and did not shoot their wad right away and continued on. It looked like Angulo went 15 rounds of sparring by the end of the 1st round. Thoughts?

***Spyder*** · 11-10-2011, 01:10 AM

Lil-Lightsout Wrote:So I train a few guys on the side at my house. Well this one dude, who is 26, watched this fight and could not get over how Angulo punched himself out in one round. He thinks he did not train for the fight and was in terrible shape, and that is why he lost. Now I know what it is like to punch yourself out, only as an amateur though who fought a measly four rounds, not elite type fighters who train to go 12 rounds.

So it got me thinking...for someone who supposedly trained for 12 hard rounds, is it possible to blow your load in less than one round??? Would have Angulo ever got a second wind? Did he under-train? I mean I could cite dozens of fights and fighters who just went guns blazing and did not shoot their wad right away and continued on. It looked like Angulo went 15 rounds of sparring by the end of the 1st round. Thoughts?

Thoughts?

I agree with you. He was obviously shot after that one round.

***Lil-Lightsout*** · 11-10-2011, 01:17 AM

Spyder Wrote:
Lil-Lightsout Wrote:So I train a few guys on the side at my house. Well this one dude, who is 26, watched this fight and could not get over how Angulo punched himself out in one round. He thinks he did not train for the fight and was in terrible shape, and that is why he lost. Now I know what it is like to punch yourself out, only as an amateur though who fought a measly four rounds, not elite type fighters who train to go 12 rounds.

So it got me thinking...for someone who supposedly trained for 12 hard rounds, is it possible to blow your load in less than one round??? Would have Angulo ever got a second wind? Did he under-train? I mean I could cite dozens of fights and fighters who just went guns blazing and did not shoot their wad right away and continued on. It looked like Angulo went 15 rounds of sparring by the end of the 1st round. Thoughts?
Thoughts?

I agree with you. He was obviously shot after that one round.

Hahaha!

So was he in shape or not? Like would he have been that bad if he was in tip top shape, or was he like that cause he was NOT in top shape and was just expecting to blow Kirkland out early and collect his check?

***Spyder*** · 11-10-2011, 02:20 AM

I don't think that he under-trained...I just think that the magnitude of the fight, and the fact that he almost finished it had him fucked up. That type of adrenaline rush will wear you the fuck out. I think that's what happened.

***SmartyBeardo*** · 11-10-2011, 12:07 PM

Spyder Wrote:I don't think that he under-trained...I just think that the magnitude of the fight, and the fact that he almost finished it had him fucked up. That type of adrenaline rush will wear you the fuck out. I think that's what happened.

I agree. It was a massive adrenaline dump and Kirkland didn't give him a chance to recover.