Thomas Hauser on the USADA, anti-doping and Mayweather

[torvix2000]

WTF! Gravytrain, you posted a link to an article with an interview with the person who developed the CIR testing who was basically saying that CIR tests can be dialed down.

I just read your linked article. Lol!!!

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According to Catlin, USADA is using a test that only looks for evidence of synthetic testosterone. He would know. He invented the test, generally referred as a carbon isotope ratio (CIR) test. He said it can be dialed up or down for greater accuracy. Most of the time the USADA test­­­ is dialed down and can’t distinguish synthetic testosterone from DHEA. Thus the conclusions it reaches aren’t very conclusive. That’s why USADA couches its press releases. Instead of saying an athlete tested positive for either testosterone or DHEA, they have to state the athlete in question had “an adverse analytical finding for testosterone or its precursors,” or words to that effect.

[the ollie reed fan club]

This post on Boxing scene is a ripper;

Quote:Originally Posted by SamuraiSam View Post
I won't assume I'm addressing an alt account created (hmmm...May 2015...coincidence?) after mistakes were made and TMT had to prepare themselves for damage control after it's found out weeks later they had to retroactively file for a TUE to cover their ass. No, I won't assume you're part of the damage control team tasked to "educate" the people if/when a sh1tstorm arises from the revelation; so, nothing personal in this reply, okay? Ooops.

From everything I've read so far, the key issue with Floyd boils down to this TUE that was granted, and in his case, the RETROACTIVE TUE submitted weeks later.

Let me make an analogy based on my experience in processing medical claims in the insurance industry.

When a medical patient requires certain treatments that might not be covered by their insurance policy, they file a pre-authorization request for medical review & approval based on medical necessity. That's all done prior to the hospital admission to get the procedure done. This would be analogous to applying for a TUE prior to undergoing procedures regulated by WADA's code on prohibited substances/methods. For example, if a boxer truly suffers from Androgen Deficiency-Male Hypogonadism (one of the medical conditions listed on the website reviewable for TUE), a TUE could be granted to treat low testosterone.

When a patient has a medical emergency and seeks treatment in an out-of-area or out-of-network hospital (assuming they're on an HMO plan instead of PPO), a concurrent or retroactive review is done after the admission, to evaluate the medical necessity of the admission, to determine if it was a true medical emergency necessitating immediate treatment. The review is done after the fact. This would be analagous to applying for the retroactive TUE. It's done retroactively because there was urgency or medical necessity requiring the immediate treatment, and there was insufficient time to get pre-authorization. The key words here are "medical emergency." Was Floyd's TUE due to a medical emergency?

You talk about people "cherry picking," yet that is exactly what you've done here in your own attempt at "propaganda." You state, "Here are is the actual code from WADA:" and then proceed to cherry-pick only two paragraphs from the code without further elaboration, and leaving them out of context to the rest of the WADA code.

For anyone who wants to review the full code themselves, go to:
https://www.wada-ama.org/en/what-we-...use-exemptions
On that page, there's a download link for a pdf entitled "wada_medical_info_iv_infusions_4.0_en.pdf", or you can just enter this url to get the download:
https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws....ons_4.0_en.pdf

As anyone can see, you copied/pasted the last two paragraphs under section "1. Introduction" with no further elaboration, and ignoring the rest of the sections of the code. We'll get to them later.

Now, the second paragraph you list from the code does not even apply in Floyd's case since the saline/vitamins is NOT a "Prohibited Substance." Curiously, that's the case where a retroactive TUE is acceptable. It makes sense because a prohibited substance may be introduced because of a true medical emergency.

The first paragraph you list says NOTHING about a retroactive TUE being acceptable; but a TUE is required by Floyd since it is a "Prohibited Method" because "more than 50 mL of fluid per a 6-hour period is infused." It's also inferred that the volume Floyd infused would have been acceptable IF it was during "a concurrent hospital admission, surgical procedure or clinical investigation," in which case a TUE is NOT required because there is an apparent medical emergency. But that wasn't Floyd's case, was it? No, he did it in the comfort of home. Thus, he broke WADA's code.

My guess is that they realized too late that they misinterpreted the code so they scrambled weeks later to get the TUE retroactively (and you were enlisted for damage control to "educate" us...LOL).

Okay, now that everyone has the full WADA pdf to cross-reference, I can save time & space not having to copy/paste the relevant sections of the code here, and I can ask the following questions:

Relating to section "2. Diagnosis"

1. Does Floyd have a documented medical history of chronic dehydration necessitating medical intervention & IV infusion?
2. Who was the treating physician? (I don't think Memo & Ariza have medical degrees; and I doubt the USADA reps were licensed MDs.)
3. Is Floyd & the USADA willing to show the copy of the TUE application? If so & they have nothing to hide, will the application clearly show the precise description of the clinical situation & specific medical indication for the IV infusion; the name of the treating physician; the ICD-10 code E86.0 or E87.1; and all the other relevant medical information listed in sub-section C?
4. Why was oral rehydration not a valid option? What was the existing co-morbidity that ruled it out as an option?

Relating to section "3. Medical best practice treatment"

1. Was Floyd experiencing a medical emergency? (He obviously was not under inpatient care, in which case the volume he infused would not have required a TUE, retroactive or not.)
2. What is the supporting evidence that no alternative treatment (i.e.--drinking orally) could have been used?
3. Who was the ordering physician, and who were the qualified medical personnel to perform the treatment?
4. Why wasn't the infusion done in an appropriate medical setting instead of at home?

The following paragraph in this section is significantly telling:

The use of IV infusions in sport is commonly linked with rehydration after
exhaustive effort, and this situation is arguably the major cause of debate. It
must be understood that the use of IV fluid replacement following exercise to
correct mild to moderate dehydration is not clinically indicated nor substantiated
by the medical literature. There is a well-established body of scientific evidence
to confirm that oral rehydration is the preferred therapeutic choice, potentially
even more effective than IV infusion.
(Ref: 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)

Relating to section "5. Consequences to health if treatment withheld"

1. Was Floyd truly in a state of medical emergency, where serious harm or death would occur without immediate medical intervention with an infusion?

[If I recall correctly from video of his weigh-in, he was able to easily walk around unassisted. Some truly dehydrated fighters have to remain sitting, lacking the strength to stand, so much as walk around...and they might be candidates for IV infusions. And I assume he was orally re-hydrating too immediately after the weigh-in; he seems to always have a bottle of water when he's conducting interviews.]

2. Observing Floyd's physical demeanor during the weigh-in, we can accept he might have had "mild to moderate" dehydration. So it begs the question...what additional physical training did he do after the weigh-in and before going home that dehydrated him beyond a "mild to moderate" level, creating a medical emergency requiring an IV infusion?


The rest of the sections are self-explanatory.

Anyway, in conclusion, based on the IV infusion apparently not being a medical emergency (in which case there should have been a hospital admission, and over 50ml infusion allowable without a TUE), we can conclude that Floyd broke WADA code...and the IV was intended to mask or alter his biological blood values. And the USADA did not correctly uphold & enforce the WADA code, to which they are signatory. And I still question, if the story is true, why USADA would only take urine samples before and after observing a procedure that potentially affects blood values.

'Nuff said.

Pretty epic and yeah Gravy I see Ariza has now come out with a new explanation as to why Floyd had the IV. This is turning into the same sort of balls-up that Pacquiao went through with the shoulder excuse, no-one can get their story straight.

I've asked two very simple questions that Imperius hasn't answered. They are the same two questions may others have asked:

1) Why the fuck does a guy who makes 147 easily need an IV drip?

2) Why the enormous quantity of saline?

No-one in Floyd's team has directly answered wither one of those questions.

As Snoop may say, this looks 'as suspicious as hell.'

[torvix2000]

"Atty. Hauser will come back at USADA. He will." - Doug Fischer

I think, next time, Hauser will point to the fact that USADA broke medical rules to bring pressure to whoever has the authority to investigate be it the government, NSAC, WADA, whoever.

[Imperius3]

(09-19-2015 11:44 PM)the ollie reed fan club Wrote:  This post on Boxing scene is a ripper;


Pretty epic and yeah Gravy I see Ariza has now come out with a new explanation as to why Floyd had the IV. This is turning into the same sort of balls-up that Pacquiao went through with the shoulder excuse, no-one can get their story straight.

I've asked two very simple questions that Imperius hasn't answered. They are the same two questions may others have asked:

1) Why the fuck does a guy who makes 147 easily need an IV drip?

2) Why the enormous quantity of saline?

No-one in Floyd's team has directly answered wither one of those questions.

As Snoop may say, this looks 'as suspicious as hell.'

I can't answer those questions because I don't know the answers. I don't work for Mayweather or USADA. I don't think it's suspicious because 1) there wasn't any dope in the IV, 2) saline and vitamins aren't masking agents, 3) a registered nurse administered the IV, 4) a USADA collector monitored the IV administration, and 5) both the NSAC and USADA have stated everything is cool, and there won't be an investigation.

Time to let this go and move forward.

[Dickagon]

A link you provided said different races can have different T/E ratios. The range was from .7:1 for Asians and 1.1:1 for black. You said that T/E ratios fluctuated. Your links were also dealing with T/E ratios greater than 1:1. That's fairly common among athletes and active males. What isn't normal are T/E ratios below average. That's why Jones and Cormier were tested. You then tried claiming that their negative results meant Floyd's results from a CIR test as well.

You can see that by USADA's standards Floyd did something illegal. That's directly from their page on TUEs.

[the ollie reed fan club]

(09-20-2015 06:28 PM)Imperius3 Wrote:  2) saline and vitamins aren't masking agents, 3

Tell that to Lance Armstrong.

[torvix2000]

I think some boxer should have an IV rehydration in front of NSAC and tell them, "You fuckin' did not do anything with Floyd Mayweather, so I can have one."

[Dickagon]

There's always a different set of rules for the big name in the sport. I don't care about Floyd getting preferntial treatment from NSAC, he makes the city of Las Vegas a shitload of money. The NFL is really no different when it comes to giving athletes an easy pass if they've got the right name. The problem is a company like USADA giving him his own set of rules when other athletes would've been punished. And with USADA's questionable practices in boxing compared to other sports you've really got to wonder if Floyd's red flags are coincidence or if he can get away with doping due to having the ability to make up his testing protocol as he goes. And thinking an athlete wont take something that gives him the best training camp of his life every training camp is stupid.

[jlupi]

USASA's own website says saline is a masking agent. They allow IVs only under medical emergency (does anyone really think mayweather was that dehydrated from a workout before the weigh in?). As for abnormal T/E ratios they are indicative of POSSIBLE abuse. CIR testing - all testing is limited if its done only over a month period. It can also be suspicious in hindsite that MW announces his fights so late.

[Dickagon]

Man, his tests are bullshit anyway. Other athletes can't pick and choose when they give a sample. Let's say they call Floyd and want a sample at 10am and they stop by his place. What he's using has a detection time of 4 hours. They get to his place but he can't piss, they've got to wait. Then he goes to the gym, he can't piss because he's training. After he's done with the gym he needs fluids, still can't piss. He could game the detection time and pass a test easy.