Most successful weight jumps.

[BrutalBodyShots]

It's kind of pointless comparing pictures taken under different conditions. Different times/places you've got different angles, lighting, poses, etc. Way too many variables more often than not unless you can find very similar conditions in both pictures which obviously isn't the case.

For example, everyone is suggesting Pacquiao looks like a monster in the second picture compared to the first, but in the first his abs look much more defined and cut than in the second; in the second they almost look photoshopped off. This is just one example of how pictures are deceiving and BS, usually, for comparison purposes.

[JONdaCON]

But Abs aren't a representation of roid use.... Abnormally large head, acne and a limp crooked dicc are.

[BrutalBodyShots]

I'm not talking about abs with respect to roid use, I'm talking about comparing two pictures taken at different times under a different set of circumstances and variables.

If you look up Pacquiao's weigh in pictures with Clottey which was his very next fight following Cotto his abs are again defined. I don't think this has anything to do with going on/off roids... it's simply a different picture taken at a different time with a different angle, lighting, position of the subject, etc.

[Snoop]

(02-08-2016 09:41 PM)BrutalBodyShots Wrote:  If you consider Pacquiao going "life and death" against Marquez at Feather that means you also consider him going life and death with him at 130-144 as well since those fights were all close and similar.

With Morales it was a close fight between a great fighter having one last great performance and a rising star just on the cusp IMO.

As for Cotto, Pacquiao had a guy in there at a weight he hadn't made in 3-4 years so chances are he had a fairly diminished Cotto in there. How much we don't know, but we must take that into consideration.

Hatton had already been knocked out by Mayweather at 147 and his unfocused, fat ass probably struggled to hit 140 himself against Pacquiao. Hatton also only fought once more following Pacquiao and got stopped again and retired which shows me how much his head was in the game for the last few years.

So then how are you going to say what he did was "special" if Morales was on his way out, Cotto was diminished, and a fatass Hatton was unfocused? That's the thing about Pacquiao fans. It's either what he's done in the sport is so amazing, or that his meteoric rise was all just timed very, very carefully against opponents that weren't at their best. Somehow both of them are true at the same time.

[BrutalBodyShots]

First of all I'm not a Pacquiao fan. Morales beating him in their first fight was one of my favorite nights. I also thoroughly enjoyed seeing Marquez lay him out a few years ago. I have always enjoyed watching Pacquiao fight though as he generally made good fights win or lose and I can appreciate what he's accomplished over the course of his career as you don't see one accomplish that much very often.

I think what he did was "special" because he did it over the span of so many divisions and was dominant in the process. I think the good majority of his wins are good wins, even the ones over Hatton and Cotto I just don't think they are exceptional "let me reference roids" wins as you and many others seem to suggest based on how dominant they were. I think they were more dominant at times due to circumstance. I think a 100% prime Hatton and a 100% prime Cotto still both lose to prime Pacquiao but I don't think Pacquiao stops either one and they are probably 116-112 type fights.

[Snoop]

Dominant over whom exactly? If you're gonna take away the second and third Morales fights, Cotto, and Hatton, who do you have left? DLH? Was DLH at his best? Antonio Margarito, who had both a 150-lb catchweight and not ranked in the division? A 2011 version of Shane Mosley who lost to Mayweather and DREW with Sergio fucking Mora?

Don't get me wrong. I used to be a HUGE Pacquiao fan. I damn near cried when he lost to Morales the first time and his run against Barrera, JMM and Morales took a lot of goddamn balls. I think he could have been the best featherweight ever. But then he got caught up in all the weigh-hopping bullshit, taking on guys like David Diaz then peacing out the division just to call himself a champion, and then doing fight after fight of either catchweights or timing someone when they're at a weak point of their career. Steroids or not, his resumé has more flash than actual substance.

I do think he's improved since going with Roach, and he's undoubtedly a better fighter from when he was a featherweight (or if you wanna go back when he was flyweight). I just don't think it's as amazing or monumental as some people think it is when you break down what really went on during his career capping fights.

[Dickagon]

That can apply to just about everyone, dude. He aint the only one capping fights

[BrutalBodyShots]

Pacquiao was dominant over just about ever guy he beat with the exception of Marquez. I'm not "taking away" his fights like Hatton, I'm just saying that he didn't face the best version of some of the guys he faced. That said, he performed in those fights exactly how he should have which is with complete dominance. Had he eeked out a decision over Hatton, Margarito, Cotto, DLH etc. you could argue that they lost because they weren't at their best. Pacquiao steamrolled those dudes though and in almost every instance exceeded expectations. Dig back to some old Pacquiao threads and see how many people were picking those 4 guys to beat Pacquiao or how FEW picked Pacquiao to win as dominantly as he did. Hindsight is always 20/20 so I think it's important to revisit what was said before the bell rang in those instances.

[Dickagon]

Nobody thought he'd stop Hatton that early or stop DLH or that he'd put a onsided beat down on Cotto.

[BrutalBodyShots]

I actually picked DLH over Pacquiao. I thought having seen him fight a near even fight with Mayweather the previous year that DLH would have enough to handle Pacquiao, particularly in the power department. I took for granted Pacquiao's incredible speed advantage which Oscar couldn't compete with as early as a few minutes into the fight.