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***BrutalBodyShots*** · 10-05-2012, 05:43 AM

It's pretty clear to me that Mayweather faced a better DLH than Pacquiao did, thus better win for Mayweather than Pacquiao.

***KingEugene*** · 10-05-2012, 06:34 AM

I still stand behind my opinion that Floyd's win over Hatton was bigger than Manny's over Hatton.

The Hatton leading up to the Manny fight wasn't a more viable opponent than the Hatton leading up to the Floyd fight despite being the linear champion. Hatton was pretty much finished after Floyd and not even considered P4P. Paulie and Juan Lazcano just weren't good enough to expose that before he fought Manny.

As far as Oscar, I'll break it down for you who don't want to go back and read the reason why he was brought up. I disagreed to the fact that Manny's win over Hatton should be rated higher because it was at a more natural weight than against Floyd. My argument was since he agreed to the weight and wasn't forced to make that fight then we shouldn't use the weight as an issue or factor on the legitimacy of the win as Hatton hasn't either. Then good ol Fitzy goes and assumes with my logic of thinking (can't use weight as an excuse because said fighter agreed to the weight) I must feel Manny's win over Oscar should be rated higher than Floyd's win over Oscar. That's when I said...

Quote:No, I rate Mayweather's win over DLH higher because Oscar came off of a bigger win over Mayorga than Hatton's win over Paulie. Oscar was a fresher fighter before Floyd in my opinion than Ricky was before fighting Manny.

Fitz then say's fair enough on the reasoning yet it still doesn't make sense to him why I dont use weight as a factor.

Then Viper comes in posting about how Oscar wasn't a big win for either fighter which clearly shows he obviously didn't read all of the previous post because that wasn't even in the argument. I'm sure someone will find some way to flip it again so carry on...

***the ollie reed fan club*** · 10-05-2012, 07:25 AM

KingEugene Wrote:I still stand behind my opinion that Floyd's win over Hatton was bigger than Manny's over Hatton.

The Hatton leading up to the Manny fight wasn't a more viable opponent than the Hatton leading up to the Floyd fight despite being the linear champion. Hatton was pretty much finished after Floyd and not even considered P4P. Paulie and Juan Lazcano just weren't good enough to expose that before he fought Manny.

As far as Oscar, I'll break it down for you who don't want to go back and read the reason why he was brought up. I disagreed to the fact that Manny's win over Hatton should be rated higher because it was at a more natural weight than against Floyd. My argument was since he agreed to the weight and wasn't forced to make that fight then we shouldn't use the weight as an issue or factor on the legitimacy of the win as Hatton hasn't either. Then good ol Fitzy goes and assumes with my logic of thinking (can't use weight as an excuse because said fighter agreed to the weight) I must feel Manny's win over Oscar should be rated higher than Floyd's win over Oscar. That's when I said...
Quote:No, I rate Mayweather's win over DLH higher because Oscar came off of a bigger win over Mayorga than Hatton's win over Paulie. Oscar was a fresher fighter before Floyd in my opinion than Ricky was before fighting Manny.
Fitz then say's fair enough on the reasoning yet it still doesn't make sense to him why I dont use weight as a factor.

Then Viper comes in posting about how Oscar wasn't a big win for either fighter which clearly shows he obviously didn't read all of the previous post because that wasn't even in the argument. I'm sure someone will find some way to flip it again so carry on...

Frank Warren recently said that Hatton was actually never the same after the Tszyu and I tend to believe him.

I know he's probably bitter about it but he does have some decent points. Firstly Warren had him fighting 3-4 times per year to keep him out of trouble.

In 2005 he fought only twice (once after the Tszyu fight), 2006 only once and in 2007 3 times but one of them was the completely shot JLC.

After the Tszyu win by all accounts his drinking became a lot worse and it is well documented that the ballooning up in weight became more problematic and extreme as well. Maybe this was the reason why he went up to 147 pounds and registered what many people believe should have been his first loss against Collazzo.

Added to this was his refusal to change his drinking partner/trainer and his style never evolved or got better. I remember a body shot from Urango that just about made Ricky shit his pants. The writing was on the wall.

The only thing that surprises me with the Mayweather fight was that he was able to go the number of rounds he did. Really Floyd should've iced this pie eating, Marlon Brando sized alcoholic with limited boxing abilities within 4-5 rounds.

***ViperSniper*** · 10-05-2012, 07:55 AM

KingEugene Wrote:I still stand behind my opinion that Floyd's win over Hatton was bigger than Manny's over Hatton.

The Hatton leading up to the Manny fight wasn't a more viable opponent than the Hatton leading up to the Floyd fight despite being the linear champion. Hatton was pretty much finished after Floyd and not even considered P4P. Paulie and Juan Lazcano just weren't good enough to expose that before he fought Manny.

As far as Oscar, I'll break it down for you who don't want to go back and read the reason why he was brought up. I disagreed to the fact that Manny's win over Hatton should be rated higher because it was at a more natural weight than against Floyd. My argument was since he agreed to the weight and wasn't forced to make that fight then we shouldn't use the weight as an issue or factor on the legitimacy of the win as Hatton hasn't either. Then good ol Fitzy goes and assumes with my logic of thinking (can't use weight as an excuse because said fighter agreed to the weight) I must feel Manny's win over Oscar should be rated higher than Floyd's win over Oscar. That's when I said...
Quote:No, I rate Mayweather's win over DLH higher because Oscar came off of a bigger win over Mayorga than Hatton's win over Paulie. Oscar was a fresher fighter before Floyd in my opinion than Ricky was before fighting Manny.
Fitz then say's fair enough on the reasoning yet it still doesn't make sense to him why I dont use weight as a factor.

Then Viper comes in posting about how Oscar wasn't a big win for either fighter which clearly shows he obviously didn't read all of the previous post because that wasn't even in the argument. I'm sure someone will find some way to flip it again so carry on...

I was more adding on to what had already been discussed in the thread apposed to your post alone. The part of your post I was referring to was Mayweather's win over De La Hoya being higher than his win over Hatton (due to bring fresher & coming off better win(s)). I didn't see the same way which is cool, because I could see the points you made also.

De La Hoya was wayy past his prime & a promotor/part time boxer who had not been very active. Although the Mayorga win was good, it wasn't really gonna do shit for De La Hoya in regards to fighting a much more active Mayweather (which sounds funny saying).

Hatton was the fresher, much closer to his prime fighter than De La Hoya was in their careers. As for Mallinagi. That may not have the same jingle as Mayorga but you can't do much about not having a big name in your division or not.

Mayweather had troubles in a close SD fight in a very average performance against De La Hoya. Whereas Hatton, Mayweather got the stoppage in a much clear fight & a very good performance! Not to mention it was a more relevant, meaningful fight.

As for weight not being a factor because the fighter agreed. Ward-Dawson is a perfect example! Dawson agreed so he wasn't in a position to make excuses, but by saying that I can't deny the fact that Dawson WAS weight drained & effected by the drop down in weight in hindsight.

***Dickagon*** · 10-05-2012, 03:25 PM

hands down Pac got a better win. Hatton is a professional, he's supposed to have himself ready for a fight. if Mayweather softened Hatton up for Pac then Collazo softened Hatton up for Floyd.

***BrutalBodyShots*** · 10-05-2012, 07:29 PM

gravytrain Wrote:hands down Pac got a better win. Hatton is a professional, he's supposed to have himself ready for a fight. if Mayweather softened Hatton up for Pac then Collazo softened Hatton up for Floyd.

To some degree that's true, but Collazo wasn't able to stop Hatton like Floyd did.

***BrutalBodyShots*** · 10-05-2012, 07:32 PM

I don't think comparing Hatton moving up to fight Floyd and losing to Dawson moving down to fight Ward and losing is quite the same thing.

For one, Dawson post-Hopkins in the interview CALLED OUT Ward at 168, said he could make it no problem and that he'd beat Ward at 168. He further said in the weeks leading up to the fight that he was 100% ready and on target with the weight.

That to me is different than Hatton "agreeing" to fight Floyd at 147. I don't recall Hatton post-Castillo calling out Floyd at 147, saying he'd go there and be 100% yadda yadda.

***the ollie reed fan club*** · 10-05-2012, 07:52 PM

BrutalBodyShots Wrote:I don't think comparing Hatton moving up to fight Floyd and losing to Dawson moving down to fight Ward and losing is quite the same thing.

For one, Dawson post-Hopkins in the interview CALLED OUT Ward at 168, said he could make it no problem and that he'd beat Ward at 168. He further said in the weeks leading up to the fight that he was 100% ready and on target with the weight.

That to me is different than Hatton "agreeing" to fight Floyd at 147. I don't recall Hatton post-Castillo calling out Floyd at 147, saying he'd go there and be 100% yadda yadda.

Boy you're really splitting hairs on this one. I mean what the fuck is Dawson supposed to say? "Yeah I don't feel quite right and I suspect I am going to get beat but what the hell I will go for go for it."

As for Hatton, once those press conferences got underway he had plenty of shit to say about how he was going to beat Floyd. It was pretty funny actually.

http://www.youtube.com/v/WH3ikFLibu4&feature=related

***Dickagon*** · 10-06-2012, 05:00 PM

BrutalBodyShots Wrote:
gravytrain Wrote:hands down Pac got a better win. Hatton is a professional, he's supposed to have himself ready for a fight. if Mayweather softened Hatton up for Pac then Collazo softened Hatton up for Floyd.
To some degree that's true, but Collazo wasn't able to stop Hatton like Floyd did.

that's kind of my point. this is coming down to comparing irrelevant shit. it would be like comparing the help from the ref Mayweather got compared to Hatton and Pac just fighting. people can make it go any way they want to. what it really comes down to is Hatton's style was worse against Pac than it's against Mayweather.

***BrutalBodyShots*** · 10-06-2012, 07:19 PM

the ollie reed fan club Wrote:
BrutalBodyShots Wrote:I don't think comparing Hatton moving up to fight Floyd and losing to Dawson moving down to fight Ward and losing is quite the same thing.

For one, Dawson post-Hopkins in the interview CALLED OUT Ward at 168, said he could make it no problem and that he'd beat Ward at 168. He further said in the weeks leading up to the fight that he was 100% ready and on target with the weight.

That to me is different than Hatton "agreeing" to fight Floyd at 147. I don't recall Hatton post-Castillo calling out Floyd at 147, saying he'd go there and be 100% yadda yadda.
Boy you're really splitting hairs on this one. I mean what the fuck is Dawson supposed to say? "Yeah I don't feel quite right and I suspect I am going to get beat but what the hell I will go for go for it."

As for Hatton, once those press conferences got underway he had plenty of shit to say about how he was going to beat Floyd. It was pretty funny actually.

http://www.youtube.com/v/WH3ikFLibu4&feature=related

Dawson should have tried to get Ward to move up to 175 for the fight. Historically far more fighters have moved up to challenge for a title rather than move down. At the very least he could have tried for a catch weight, although I'm against catch weights. The way he put himself out there is why I give Ward more credit comparably for that win than Mayweather for Hatton.