Politics Unfiltered

[Spyder]

EBT use in Publix is a lot more rare than in Winn-Dixie. Those fuckers will have the cashier ring up 3 different orders just to stretch that shit out. Annoying as shit while I'm standing there just trying to buy a six pack. I've started just going straight to the empty customer service counter since EBT doesn't buy cigs and lottery tix.

[Dickagon]

I've learned my lesson, man. I stick with Publix or Costco. I was going to Sams too but that's just the poor man's Costco lol. I never go to Wal-Mart or Winn Dixie. And once you get to be a regular at Publix you got it made.

[Decagon]

(07-24-2014 12:46 AM)Warlord Wrote:  Well, let me respond to that. I don't want to put words in your mouth, so if my inferences are wrong feel free to correct me.

You think the minimum wage should be raised, not for the good of society, but for your own good. You make more than minimum wage now, mind you. So I guess you want minimum wage raised just in case the economy tanks and you get laid off and have to take a crap job. You aren't necessarily concerned about whether or not your fellow man makes good.

Raising the minimum wage is good for the economy. There's so little difference between being on welfare and working for minimum wage that people don't have the incentive to work for minimum wage. In cities, states and nations where the minimum wage has increased, employment has actually gone up.

(07-24-2014 12:46 AM)Warlord Wrote:  You want free, quality healthcare. Again, not for the good of humanity, but for the simple fact that when you get ill, you want to get treated cheaply and efficiently. Whether or not your fellow man benefits from this is immaterial.

There's no such thing as free health care. But nations with socialized medicine spend less money on healthcare, have a higher cancer survival rate, have lower child mortality levels and have a higher life expectancy. There are basically two arguments against socialized medicine. One goes, "that's what the COMMIES like," which is a guilt-by-association fallacy, and the other goes, "but the insurance companies that have charged us too much and underinsured us might go out of business," and I don't really give a shit if insurance companies go out of business.

(07-24-2014 12:46 AM)Warlord Wrote:  Again, correct me if you feel differently and I am talking out of my ass here, but that seems incredibly selfish to me. I don't know how anyone could support socialism for those reasons, and shit on capitalism at the same time. At least with capitalism no one is hiding their true intentions behind veiled pleasantries.

Capitalism is the belief that the nastiest of human beings have our best interest at heart.

(07-24-2014 12:46 AM)Warlord Wrote:  If you support socialism because you think man helping man is the right thing to do, I can respect that. I won't necessarily agree with it, but I will respect it. And I would politely ask anyone who believes in helping the needy out of love, empathy, or justice to re-examine their spirituality, or lack thereof.

It's not just the right thing to do, it's better for the economy, and better for life in general.

(07-24-2014 12:46 AM)Warlord Wrote:  If you support socialism because you think it will best serve your own personal needs, I can respect that too. But at that point I would recommend capitalism one more time. It much more effectively serves the man who wishes to better himself to the best of his ability.

Socialism more represents what we understand of human nature. Humans are social creatures, herd creatures. Capitalism is based on 18th-century thoughts on human nature, which have evolved since then.

(07-24-2014 12:46 AM)Warlord Wrote:  After all, you can't look out for number one when the group is there to redistribute your wealth anytime you get too far ahead. At least with capitalism your ability to keep what you earn is much greater, which also means your ability to care for yourself just increased.

That is fallacious thinking. Socialism includes unionization, the ability to organize. When you're able to organize with your fellow worker, you're able to earn more money, which means your ability to care for yourself just increased.

[BrotherCane]

Chairman, Zack Taylor, of The National Association of Former Border Patrol Officers, in a June 12, 2014 press release, asserts, “America is undergoing the most intensive campaign of Political Deception ever launched against Americans by her political leaders.”

A retired Border Patrol officer of 26 years, Taylor is on a mission of disclosure using PowerPoint talks, media interviews, press releases and YouTube video’s to reveal the government cover-up of the real danger America is in on two fronts: Public Safety (the right of the people to be secure in their property and person) and National Security, as it relates to not only jobs and the economy, but including the infiltration of lawless and corrupt drug and Mexican cartels and gangs, who are building their own infrastructure here in the US. Taylor makes a case that what this administration is “trying to do is make the border patrol as ineffective as possible.”

During an interview with Newsmax TV’s JD of America’s Forum with Taylor, he was asked if he thought the administration was actively involved in promoting this [border crisis] and Taylor responded with, “Yes”.

Taylor, in the video interview below, reports that the government, along with the help of the media, is reframing the crisis to show and report a very small percentage of a select demographic group of illegal’s entering the country.

“In this situation, where you have hundreds of thousands, literally, coming across the border and you’re only catching a small fraction—if you’re not telling the public that 80% to 90% of what’s coming across the border is not being apprehended, and you’re putting their focus on this 10%—being apprehended—only showing them the 1%—they’re 6, 8, 10 years old and appeal [only] to the compassion of the America people and not show them the people with serious communicable diseases—the fact there are known gang members [also], they have the gang tats all over them, [and] because they do not have a conviction in the United States, they are turned loose—free in the United States.”

Taylor asserts that this administration is encouraging this crisis. He says it’s a perfect military strategy because it raises no alarms since the media is focusing the public on the children. He summarizes his vantage point by noting that the way this administration is responding by concealing facts from the American people, they are assisting in the downfall of America.

Taylor makes a compelling point, “…CIA, FBI, Department of State, Homeland Security, the Army, Navy, Marines, and Coastguards are in Central America right now and have been there for a long time. They know what is going on.

VIDEO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnkSXosZhic

---

(07-24-2014 02:26 AM)Spyder Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 11:35 PM)Decagon Wrote:  You have a very simplistic view of socialism. Socialism is the minimum wage, unions, a lot of things. It means taking care of the sick and old. I've worked for minimum wage, and I've worked for a union. Right now, working for minimum wage sucks, and the minimum wage needs to be raised. I'm fortunate enough not to be working for minimum wage right now, but I know what it's like to barely scrape by in the American economy, and it sucks.

The goal should not be to stay at a minimum wage, and the incentive should not be to stay there either. Working for minimum wage SHOULD suck. Barely scraping by is society's incentive to better itself.

I believe in a safety net to help people get through rough patches, but that safety net should not be so comfy that people decide to stay in it. Rewarding poor lifestyle choices and decisions only leads to more of them.

I think the best way to raise minimum wage is by cracking you the economy full blast where there are more good jobs than there are workers. Of course you have to have a good skill set to climb that ladder but employers might be willing to train in that case. I personally will say that I don't think minimum wage has gone up with inflation. The devaluing of the dollar and buying power is the kinda inflation I am talking about.

Hell, Yellen thinks inflation is too low, I get somewhat the idea of deflation but mises seems to think that deflation isn't necessarily bad. It seems to me that true inflation (add a few points because of FED printing money, which they don't count) has caused this problem through FED intervention and Keynesian economics. And really as a whole, what good does minimum wage do if everyone's living wage doesn't go up?

Yellen on inflation being too low

Mises on deflation!

Good read on deflation

[Warlord]

(07-24-2014 05:44 AM)Decagon Wrote:  

(07-24-2014 12:46 AM)Warlord Wrote:  Well, let me respond to that. I don't want to put words in your mouth, so if my inferences are wrong feel free to correct me.

You think the minimum wage should be raised, not for the good of society, but for your own good. You make more than minimum wage now, mind you. So I guess you want minimum wage raised just in case the economy tanks and you get laid off and have to take a crap job. You aren't necessarily concerned about whether or not your fellow man makes good.

Raising the minimum wage is good for the economy. There's so little difference between being on welfare and working for minimum wage that people don't have the incentive to work for minimum wage. In cities, states and nations where the minimum wage has increased, employment has actually gone up.

(07-24-2014 12:46 AM)Warlord Wrote:  You want free, quality healthcare. Again, not for the good of humanity, but for the simple fact that when you get ill, you want to get treated cheaply and efficiently. Whether or not your fellow man benefits from this is immaterial.

There's no such thing as free health care. But nations with socialized medicine spend less money on healthcare, have a higher cancer survival rate, have lower child mortality levels and have a higher life expectancy. There are basically two arguments against socialized medicine. One goes, "that's what the COMMIES like," which is a guilt-by-association fallacy, and the other goes, "but the insurance companies that have charged us too much and underinsured us might go out of business," and I don't really give a shit if insurance companies go out of business.

(07-24-2014 12:46 AM)Warlord Wrote:  Again, correct me if you feel differently and I am talking out of my ass here, but that seems incredibly selfish to me. I don't know how anyone could support socialism for those reasons, and shit on capitalism at the same time. At least with capitalism no one is hiding their true intentions behind veiled pleasantries.

Capitalism is the belief that the nastiest of human beings have our best interest at heart.

(07-24-2014 12:46 AM)Warlord Wrote:  If you support socialism because you think man helping man is the right thing to do, I can respect that. I won't necessarily agree with it, but I will respect it. And I would politely ask anyone who believes in helping the needy out of love, empathy, or justice to re-examine their spirituality, or lack thereof.

It's not just the right thing to do, it's better for the economy, and better for life in general.

(07-24-2014 12:46 AM)Warlord Wrote:  If you support socialism because you think it will best serve your own personal needs, I can respect that too. But at that point I would recommend capitalism one more time. It much more effectively serves the man who wishes to better himself to the best of his ability.

Socialism more represents what we understand of human nature. Humans are social creatures, herd creatures. Capitalism is based on 18th-century thoughts on human nature, which have evolved since then.

(07-24-2014 12:46 AM)Warlord Wrote:  After all, you can't look out for number one when the group is there to redistribute your wealth anytime you get too far ahead. At least with capitalism your ability to keep what you earn is much greater, which also means your ability to care for yourself just increased.

That is fallacious thinking. Socialism includes unionization, the ability to organize. When you're able to organize with your fellow worker, you're able to earn more money, which means your ability to care for yourself just increased.

I get what you're saying, bro, but at the end of the day, it's up to every man to take care of himself, in my opinion. No government or man-made institution can ever be relied upon to work towards the betterment of society as a whole. Humans just aren't engineered that way.

History has proven in most cases, if not all, that the more power that is put into the hands of the state, the more corrupt it has become. Whereas, comparatively speaking, the more power put into the hands of the common man, the better off society as a whole is.

If you really believe man should work towards the betterment of his fellow man, then those ideals must come from society/culture itself, not in the form of dictated policy handed down by a nanny state.

[BrotherCane]

I think this is well written and dead on! http://mises.org/mmmp/mmmp13.asp

Most of our contemporaries are highly critical of what they call "the unequal distribution of wealth." As they see it, justice would require a state of affairs under which nobody enjoys what are to be considered superfluous luxuries as long as other people lack things necessary for the preservation of life, health, and cheerfulness. The ideal condition of mankind, they pretend, would be an equal distribution of all consumers' goods available. As the most practical method to achieve this end, they advocate the radical expropriation of all material factors of production and the conduct of all production activities by society, that is to say, by the social apparatus of coercion and compulsion, commonly called government or state.

The supporters of this program of socialism or communism reject the economic system of capitalism for a number of reasons. Their critique emphasizes the alleged fact that the system as such is not only unjust, a violation of the perennial God-given natural law, but also inherently inefficient and thus the ultimate cause of all the misery and poverty that plague mankind. Once the wicked institution of private ownership of the material factors of production will have been replaced by public ownership, human conditions will become blissful. Everybody will receive what he needs. All that separates mankind from this perfect state of earthly affairs is the unfairness in the distribution of wealth.

The essential viciousness of this method of dealing with the fundamental problems of mankind's material and spiritual welfare is to be seen in its preoccupation with the concept of distribution. As these authors and doctrinaires see it, the economic and social problem is to give to everybody his due, his fair share in the endowment that God or nature has destined for the use of all men. They do not see that poverty is "the primitive condition of the human race." [1] They do not realize that all that enables man to elevate his standard of living above the level of the animals is the fruit of his planned activity. Man's economic task is not the distribution of gifts dispensed by a benevolent donor, but production. He tries to alter the state of his environment in such a way that conditions become more favorable to the preservation and development of his vital forces. He works.

[Decagon]

That's a horrendous straw-man fallacy, Cane. Typical of you.

[BrotherCane]

Yea you can't debate it so you attack like I wrote it! Like I'll ever care what you think! LOLzzz History proves socialism doesn't work! I see the problem as being crony capitalism here in our union and you want to give the ones causing it even more power! Fuck that!!!!

[Jason Bourne]

Yo, you guys know a lot more about this shit than me but most of that shit don't even matter. Why the fuck do I care bout how many mexicans come here? They just trying to find work and do them jobs that none of us want to do anyway!

[BrotherCane]

lol