Donaire/Nishioka - Rios/Alvarado this weekend

[BigG]

Quote:Great fight Rios-Alvarado was. I thought Alvarado looked good and was edging the fight, but Rios was just too durable in the end. Possibility for FOTY, unless there are some slipping my mind at the moment.

Salido vs Juan Ma II or Rios-Alvarado are my FOTY so far.

[ViperSniper]

Fitz Wrote:

ViperSniper Wrote:Arum is holding Donaire back..no one is holding Mayweather back from fighting the best possible. That's why it's unfair on Donaire. As for Donaire's resume not being that good, I'd say it's pretty decent considering the restrictions. He has BIG wins over Darchinyan, Montiel & Nishioka. His resume is just jack to what it could have been at this point. If he starts fighting the best ona more regular basis he would be a lock for p4p #1 for me.

I don't care what the reason is, I'm just saying that he hasn't fought the best available competition just like Mayweather. If you want to argue the reasoning on why both fighters haven't fought best, well that's for another thread.
I am just rating his competition as a fan and taking reasoning as to why fights don't happen out of the equation. Only talking about fights that did or didn't happen......not why.

He has good names on his resume, but his resume isn't as good as it could have been, because they were not the best fighters available.

Darchinyan was 5+ years ago. In 5 years Montiel and Nishioka are his best wins. They are good fighters and the Montiel one was probably his best.

It would be acceptable if the fighters he fought were the best in his division, but they were just some of the best. Since 2007, there have been a handful of fighters like: Mijares, Wonjongkam, Naito, Gorres, Moreno, Hasegawa, Arce to now Mares, Agbeko, Perez and Rigondeaux.

A lot of good fighters that were around his division since 2007, yet the best he could muster up have been 2 total fights with Montiel and Nishioka.
That may be impressive to a lot of people, and it would be impressive to me if they were not around. But the fact is they were. Mayweather fought some solid fighters, but got criticised because there were better fighters available.
Donaire is the same. He has fought good fighters, but not the best ones available. I know it isn't his fault, but reasoning is irrelevant as you only judge on who was in the ring.
Arguing the reasoning is for another thread.

I don't disagree with rating a fighter due to reasoning on why they did or did not fight the best. In terms of stepping up, I think Donaire has always be more than willing to whereas the same cannot be be said about Mayweather. Both have had a great amount of good fights to take but I feel Donaire has stepped up more than Mayweather has since Floyd's post 140 career with him taking on Montiel alone. That's says more about the lack of competition Floyd has 'chosen' over the competition Donaire was lucky enough to land.

(Both stepped up in their last fights..but there was a big difference in opinion leading to their fights as Nishioka was taken Farr more seriously than Cotto!)

However..both fighters careers have suffered..regardless of the reason.

[and the NEW]

I disagree with Fitz here 100 fold.

Guys like Naito, Perez, Agbeko aren't exactly some tough guy Donaire has avoided and Ponsaklek, come on, that guy almost did a Chris John with his attempt at 'dominating' his division.

In his last 7 fights (which doesn't nearly date back to the win over Darchinyan) let's see who Donaire has beaten and the fashion in which he has beaten them.

Hernan Marquez, now fighting Viloria and has proven he is one of the dominant flys out there, as good as any of the guys you named above.

Sydorenko. Yes the man who has held a title and defended it multiple times. He pushed Moreno and Cordoba (the man who took Ridondeaux all the way), to their very limits. Nonito blew him out of the water in one of the most spectacular beatdowns of this era. This has ended Syrorenkos career to date.

Fernando Montiel, ouch, need I say more. The guy had a dent in his head! Montiel has never been the same since.

Narvaez, probably the most dominant fly and super fly around for some while. Donaire completely shut him out.

He then went to a completely new division and unified two belts in a division he is obviously over his best weight in. Some feat alone.

Nishioka, he then beats the top dog in the division by complete shut out. The same division he hasn't looked powerful or strong in and his 4th division.

He has left Rigondeaux (who has done nothing) and the winner of Mares vs Moreno.

Other than that, it's a wrap. The guy has basically cleaned house and done so in incredible fashion. He is right there alongside Andre Ward as the two guys to take the P4P throne once Mayweather and Pacquiao either slide or retire.

[Fitz]

That's a pretty good post. I rate Donaire highly, I just think there were better fighters he could have fought (though that's not to say his competition has been extremely poor).
Whatever you may think of Agbeko, Mares and Perez. They all competed in a bantamweight tournament. We had an IBF champion and Mares was crowned the winner. Then another bantamweight in Moreno who has defended his WBA title 13 times. Yes Donaire may have unified with Montiel, but he didn't clean out the division with Mares and Moreno still there and with credibility.

[and the NEW]

Fitz Wrote:That's a pretty good post. I rate Donaire highly, I just think there were better fighters he could have fought (though that's not to say his competition has been extremely poor).
Whatever you may think of Agbeko, Mares and Perez. They all competed in a bantamweight tournament. We had an IBF champion and Mares was crowned the winner. Then another bantamweight in Moreno who has defended his WBA title 13 times. Yes Donaire may have unified with Montiel, but he didn't clean out the division with Mares and Moreno still there and with credibility.

Completely agree. I wish he never moved to super bantam. He has looked weak there with little power and no edge in reach. He is winning by pure boxing ability and athletacism now.

But I still think he will fight the winner of Mares vs Moreno (particularly if it is the later) and I think he will fight Rigondeaux also (but Rigo needs to step up himself and stop just calling out Donarie).

Unfortunately, I don't think Donarie will be a force at feather at all and I think if he moves there, that will be the end of his little reign up top. He will go the way of Mosley and Oscar, trying to scamper back to his natural weight before realising it's all too late!

[BrutalBodyShots]

Good posts and points above fellas.

I too don't think Donaire's resume is great, but it isn't bad either. He's got one of those resumes that is solid but just below the cusp of great and leaves a little to be desired. I think it's easy to be critical of a guy like Donaire, or Mayweather, or a prime Roy Jones because they are guys that rarely lose rounds and never lose fights. You always want to see them pushed and have those great, career-defining fights and it just doesn't seem to happen. I think we'll see Donaire involved in some bigger fights within the next year. I got the vibe from him in his last post fight interview that he's going to be targeting big time fights from here on out. He sounds like he may be losing a little bit of the fire in his belly, but one that's easily ignited by facing a viable opponent.

[and the NEW]

BrutalBodyShots Wrote:I got the vibe from him in his last post fight interview that he's going to be targeting big time fights from here on out.

I'm not sure Mares, Moreno or Rigondeaux are anymore 'big time' than Darchinyan, Montiel or Nishioka were. Heck, I think even Narvaez is as good as those guys.

If Mares beats Moreno, maybe he is, but Rigondeaux hasn't exactly beat anybody good whatsoever and isn't a big name himself. Moreno has struggled with average opponents and his dominate performance against Vic (who seems well past it now) has a lot of fans making out like his some kind of Sweet Pea.

Those guys Donaire has beaten have been mainstays, dominate champions around the divisions he has been fighting in. They aren't huge names, but you rarely get those big names in the lower weights. They are as good as any of the other little guys around.

[BrutalBodyShots]

and the NEW Wrote:

BrutalBodyShots Wrote:I got the vibe from him in his last post fight interview that he's going to be targeting big time fights from here on out.

I'm not sure Mares, Moreno or Rigondeaux are anymore 'big time' than Darchinyan, Montiel or Nishioka were. Heck, I think even Narvaez is as good as those guys.

I don't think they need to be bigger names than those that he's already beaten, just on par with them. Donaire said that he was very motivated for Nishioka; he saw him as a legitimate challenge/threat so he was extremely focused and ready for the fight. I would think a name like Mares or Moreno would do just fine in getting Donaire "up" for a fight.